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>They don't consume any US government services either These sorts of arguments always bother me because they over simplify the complexities of how one benefits
by cluda01 15y ago
>They don't consume any US government services either
These sorts of arguments always bother me because they over simplify the complexities of how one benefits from a public good or service. One example would be that Google doesn't have to worry about their engineers getting into a car crash on the way to work because the governments (federal and state) collectively spend billions of dollars ensuring that our roadways are safe for vehicles.
Another example would be that google doesn't have to spend money hiring private militaries or police forces to enforce their contracts because we have a judicial system that is paid for by the tax payers. This particular example is where your "consumption" argument falls down rather directly. Although it's true that they hire their own counsel, they are not the ones paying the salaries of all the various court officials. They "consume" these resources but in many peoples minds, myself included, do not pay their fair share.
>Similarly, my employees (all located here in India) don't pay any US income taxes. Is there some reason they should?
Of course not. The company that you set up and domiciled in America pays income taxes on the profit that you generate. Profit is usually defined as revenue minus expenses. Taxes paid in other countries are considered expenses and as such are accounted for.
>The loss carryforward is a necessary hack to the system to prevent taxation from penalizing businesses with volatile income streams.
Although we can both agree that GE's tax situation is very complex the problems that I and others have is that they directly lobby the government to get these tax incentives. The example I am thinking of is their lobbying arm advocating for an increased depreciation schedule on some of their capital equipment. This isn't fair.
The summary of my problem with your argument is that you benefit from all the things that America provides (government services, easy access to higher education, educated working class, pro-business climate, etc) but don't think that you should have to pay for any of this because "you didn't consume it." Just by living in America and being able to take advantage of these things you have consumed these things and you should have to pay your fair share. Consumption doesn't necessarily mean somebody handing you a check or waiting in a welfare line.
- thurn 15y agoObviously Google Inc. consumes US government services. The point is that Google Ireland Inc. probably doesn't. Google Inc. pays its fair share of U.S. corporate tax on domestic revenue, and Google Ireland pays tax in Ireland. Why should Google Ireland's revenue, which never comes into America, be subject to U.S. tax law? They don't rely on U.S. government services, they rely on Irish government services.
- cluda01 15y agoBecause they are waiting for a tax holiday so that they can repatriate the profit without paying taxes on it.
- thurn 15y agoYes, that was a pretty dumb precedent for Bush to set.
- anamax 15y agoYou still haven't explained why Google should pay US taxes on Google Ireland's profits. Those profits were made using Ireland's infrastructure and were taxed there.
- yummyfajitas 15y agoYes, Google Ireland is choosing not to invest money in the USA because of the hostile business environment in the US. So what? Is Google Ireland somehow obligated to do business in the US in an effort to pay more US taxes? Is the Guinness Brewing Company or Tata similarly obligated to do business in the US just so the US government can tax them? And on the flip side, is GM obligated to do business in India so that India can tax them?
- cluda01 15y agoThe shareholders of Google own stakes in Google, Inc. which is an American company not Google Ireland. Google Ireland is a subsidiary of Google, Inc. Ultimately the end goal of Google, Inc. is to maximize profit for shareholders. To pretend that Google Ireland is some independent company company that makes its own decisions where to do business isn't particularly prescient in my opinion. Given the billions of dollars that is building up in parking spaces overseas for major tech companies such as Google indicates to me here that the motivation isn't to re-invest in business overseas but to wait patiently for a tax holiday and repatriate the capital at next to tax free. And this is what I disagree with. We can come up with all sorts of points and counter points about why our particular positions are correct but my issue is as follows: 1. I suppose that Google has built all these complicated transfer pricing agreements so that they can accumulate capital with out being taxed and wait for a tax holiday to repatriate the capital at next to no cost. If 1 is true then I believe that this is wrong and Google is not paying their fair share. Which part of this do you disagree with?
- anamax 15y ago> the governments (federal and state) collectively spend billions of dollars ensuring that our roadways are safe for vehicles. Where do you think that "the governments" got that money?
- yummyfajitas 15y agoOne example would be that Google doesn't have to worry about their engineers getting into a car crash on the way to work because the governments (federal and state) collectively spend billions of dollars ensuring that our roadways are safe for vehicles. This applies only to Google USA. Google USA pays US income tax. Google India does not pay US income tax and does not receive these benefits. The summary of my problem with your argument is that you benefit from all the things that America provides (government services, easy access to higher education, educated working class, pro-business climate, etc) but don't think that you should have to pay for any of this because "you didn't consume it." My employees were educated mostly here: http://www.nifdpune.co.in/ http://www.nifdpune.co.in/ and here http://www.softpune.com/index.shtml http://www.softpune.com/index.shtml. I didn't ask where my devs went to school, but it was probably an IIT. Explain again how I'm consuming US government services?