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> That a password was captured by a keylogger on a Dev Ops home computer shows that they don't understand how to secure remote computers I tend to disagree. Th

> That a password was captured by a keylogger on a Dev Ops home computer shows that they don't understand how to secure remote computers I tend to disagree. The potential for any single employee to do substantial harm to any business is incredible and designing a system to make that not possible is nigh impossible. It's neither the humans nor the institutions fault. It's just that systems involving humans are incredibly hard stuff. You are constantly weighing rigidity of the system with the potential to do harm within the system. How much way can it give to make it possible for humans to do their job in a complicated world? If you go down the path of "we need a process for everything" you are going to end up with a lot of processes. The inherent problem with that approach is that (for most businesses that are not exactly amazon) a lot of processes can not not feasibly be systematically enforced and rely on being honoured by a human a juncture points, to an extent that makes you very uncomfortable when you consider what mechanisms you system has, for when they just don't. As of now, most system simply rely on humans to do the right thing at the right time, for no other reason than it being the right thing and they also knowing that, for the whole world to not go up in flames.

Chyzwar 4y ago
Last pass have different threat model than most of companies. They should have higher standard than everyone else. Employee privete PC should not have access to production data. They should you vpn and multi factory auth and everyone should be trained in company.
oxfordmale 4y ago
If a password was captured by a key logger, rather than a session token being stolen, they didn't implement 2FA for this login. They are also talking about a home computer. In my company, VPN access is limited to trusted devices; therefore, sensitive systems can only be accessed from a corporate machine. Security at LastPass seems substandard for a company storing security credentials. Unfortunately, from my experience, this is relatively common, and regulators need to start issuing significant fines or prison sentences for this to improve. Unfortunately, it is too easy for CTO/CISO to find a scapegoat and avoid scrutiny.
- execveat 4y ago
  There isn't enough information to tell. With keylogger you can steal password every time it's used, MFA will just prevent / limit it's use. So it doesn't tell us anything about their MFA implementation and whether attackers reused session or did some other trick (e.g. time based tokens by design can be used to multiple times within the given time period or you could hijack first MFA token while it's being sent to the server and present an error; now you can use this token yourself while user successfully logs in with the second token). Once you get password vault, it's very likely that you also get creds necessary to set up VPN. Besides, there are ways to bypass (poorly implemented) VPN and relying on VPNs isn't even the best practice nowadays. I agree with you that a few CISOs getting sentences would be the fastest way to raise the bar across the tech sector, but that's never going to happen.
  - oxfordmale 4y ago
    A secure MFA implication requires a second device to authorise the login. As you correctly point out, generating a code then and entering it on a compromised machine is SFA, as it treats the token as a second password. If MFA is implemented correctly, the only attack vector should be the session token.
pid-1 4y ago
Restricting access to corporate environments from trusted machines is trivial using any form of MDM. No one should be working from their personal machines. That's gross negligence.
- jstummbillig 4y ago
  > Restricting access to corporate environments from trusted machines is trivial using any form of MDM. Until somebody pulls out their personal cell phone, and takes a photo of a screen containing highly confidential data, to then send it to someone else, because, dang it, they had to get something done NOW and it seemed very convenient.
  - pid-1 4y ago
    No security measure is 100% effective nor 100% moron proof, but in many companies that would be a fireable offense, which gets you pretty far.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway47362 4y ago
      Some consumer electronics companies have security guards enforcing that no cellphone gets on premises. If you want security you can get security, but is the price worth paying? All depends on the cost of a breach. Given that last pass still has customers maybe they estimated their costs just right ;) that cannot be said of some certificate authorities..

Chyzwar 4y ago

Last pass have different threat model than most of companies. They should have higher standard than everyone else. Employee privete PC should not have access to production data. They should you vpn and multi factory auth and everyone should be trained in company.

oxfordmale 4y ago

If a password was captured by a key logger, rather than a session token being stolen, they didn't implement 2FA for this login. They are also talking about a home computer. In my company, VPN access is limited to trusted devices; therefore, sensitive systems can only be accessed from a corporate machine. Security at LastPass seems substandard for a company storing security credentials. Unfortunately, from my experience, this is relatively common, and regulators need to start issuing significant fines or prison sentences for this to improve. Unfortunately, it is too easy for CTO/CISO to find a scapegoat and avoid scrutiny.

execveat 4y ago
There isn't enough information to tell. With keylogger you can steal password every time it's used, MFA will just prevent / limit it's use. So it doesn't tell us anything about their MFA implementation and whether attackers reused session or did some other trick (e.g. time based tokens by design can be used to multiple times within the given time period or you could hijack first MFA token while it's being sent to the server and present an error; now you can use this token yourself while user successfully logs in with the second token). Once you get password vault, it's very likely that you also get creds necessary to set up VPN. Besides, there are ways to bypass (poorly implemented) VPN and relying on VPNs isn't even the best practice nowadays. I agree with you that a few CISOs getting sentences would be the fastest way to raise the bar across the tech sector, but that's never going to happen.
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  A secure MFA implication requires a second device to authorise the login. As you correctly point out, generating a code then and entering it on a compromised machine is SFA, as it treats the token as a second password. If MFA is implemented correctly, the only attack vector should be the session token.

pid-1 4y ago

Restricting access to corporate environments from trusted machines is trivial using any form of MDM. No one should be working from their personal machines. That's gross negligence.

jstummbillig 4y ago
> Restricting access to corporate environments from trusted machines is trivial using any form of MDM. Until somebody pulls out their personal cell phone, and takes a photo of a screen containing highly confidential data, to then send it to someone else, because, dang it, they had to get something done NOW and it seemed very convenient.
- pid-1 4y ago
  No security measure is 100% effective nor 100% moron proof, but in many companies that would be a fireable offense, which gets you pretty far.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway47362 4y ago
    Some consumer electronics companies have security guards enforcing that no cellphone gets on premises. If you want security you can get security, but is the price worth paying? All depends on the cost of a breach. Given that last pass still has customers maybe they estimated their costs just right ;) that cannot be said of some certificate authorities..