5 ms·

Wayland is the default on Fedora, Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Debian. The majority of desktop linux users is probably on Wayland by now.

by fsh 4y ago

IceWreck 4y ago
Conditionally default. Except the latest version of Fedora, all the others fallback to X on nvidia hardware.
ddtaylor 4y ago
The majority of graphics cards are Nvidia which don't play nicely at all with Wayland.
- fsh 4y ago
  The average user has a laptop with an Intel or AMD iGPU. Gaming machine are niche.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pauby 4y ago
    The average user isn't running a Linux desktop.
    - lproven 4y ago
      That may not be true any more. ChromeBooks were outselling Macs from 2017-2021, although the pandemic meant hundreds of millions of people suddenly needed new computers for remote working and the kids to use for remote schooling, so sales spiked and have since collapsed. But they sold ITRO 100 million units per year for several years. China's 5-3-2 program is also nearing its end: https://medium.com/technicity/chinese-3-5-2-policy-is-a-major-move-towards-tech-independence-48d178157b3f https://medium.com/technicity/chinese-3-5-2-policy-is-a-majo... That means hundreds of millions more Linux PCs in the PRoC. As such, that's somewhere around quarter to half a billion Linux desktops in the last few years, and maybe twice that. Windows PC sales are struggling: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3675895/pc-sales-fall-off-a-cliff.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3675895/pc-sales-fall-... Still hundreds of millions of units, but they're falling. More people are staring at Linux all day than you might think.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Chrome OS isn't Linux desktop. Even if you mention Linux sandbox environment, it is only available in selected models.
        lproven 4y ago
        I disagree. It's a relatively standard distro up until the GUI layer, based on Gentoo. I'd agree that Android is something else, but ChromeOS is mostly the usual GNU + Linux stuff, and a weird display server which is Chrome rendering direct to the screen.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Then have fun running GNU stuff on ChromeOS, specially the devices that don't support the GNU/Linux sandox (crostini). Maybe take advantage of WASM for it. And even if Crostini is available, the usual stuff https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 -- Cameras aren't yet supported. -- Android devices are supported over USB, but other devices aren't yet supported. -- Android Emulators aren't yet supported. -- Hardware acceleration isn't yet supported, including GPU and video decode. -- ChromeVox is supported for the default Terminal app, but not yet for other Linux apps.
        isr 4y ago
        A bit late to this party, but you are woefully, badly misinformed as to what ChromeOS is, and what you can run on it. Well over a decade ago, I was running a full suite of gnu-linux devtools, natively, within chromeos. You don't even need to install a chroot from another distro. Just get a gcc (chromebrew was the first to package this), and the rest is just gentoo linux (with portage ripped out - and in the early days, you could run a shell script which PUT PORTAGE BACK IN). And if you take the time to understand the wierd partitioning layout, a couple of bind mounts in the right places is all you need to get the chromeos gui file manager (which is rather crappy, btw) to see your stuff.
        lproven 4y ago
    - pabs3 4y ago
      The average user isn't running a desktop.
      - kelnos 4y ago
        Oof, that hits hard, but you're probably right: I expect there are more people who primarily (or even exclusively) use a smartphone or tablet than a general-purpose computer running a general-purpose OS. It's a sad state of affairs, to be sure.
        pabs3 4y ago
        There are libre mobile devices, but approximately no-one uses them, just like approximately no-one uses Linux on the desktop. Unless some large vendors start shipping Linux by default on all their devices, or the current mainstream OS vendors become really obnoxious and people go searching for alternative devices with Linux installed by default, that isn't going to change since people really don't want to have to do installs themselves.
    - topaz0 4y ago
      I have been running linux on various hardware since about 2003. Zero of those computers had discrete gpus.
      - NoGravitas 4y ago
        The last Linux box I used that had a discrete gpu had a Matrox G400 (released 1999). Every one since then has been Intel onboard.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      No, but the average Linux user has probably been bitten by nvidia compat issues so much in the past that they're even more likely than the average generic laptop user to be using Intel or AMD graphics.
- deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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- vetinari 4y ago
  > The majority of graphics cards are Nvidia The majority of graphics cards are Intel.
  - __d 4y ago
    Very few graphics cards are Intel.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      OK, since we are splitting hair there, then most graphics controllers and gpus used are Intel. Also note, that users that use graphics cards are minority themselves.
- messe 4y ago
  This isn't nearly as true as it used to be. I regularly game on KDE Plasma on Wayland on a 3080 Ti with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers, and it works fine.
ravishi 4y ago
Until they have to share screen in a meeting and give up tweaking flags in different places, login using X and never look back again. Seriously for anyone who works remotely sharing screen is essential, but it still doesn't work flawlessly in Wayland.
- JoshTriplett 4y ago
  > Until they have to share screen in a meeting This was absolutely true, until I switched to pipewire. Once I did, this started to just work, with no issues whatsoever. (No configuration required, just followed Debian's package dependencies switching to pipewire and it started working in Firefox.)
  - kelnos 4y ago
    So then, in other words, the default setup is still broken?
    - JoshTriplett 4y ago
      No, for many distros the default setup is now pipewire.
- 3836293648 4y ago
  Screensharing works perfectly in firefox and given how awful linux versions of zoom, teams, etc are, that's all that matters
- pelorat 4y ago
  Just do real time video encoding of the screen and forget about X.
yyyk 4y ago
I recall none of these distros change existing installs, also plasma (KDE) is often still on X11. So it depends on proportions of new users+new installs+selected DE+video card...

Wayland is the default on Fedora, Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Debian. The majority of desktop linux users is probably on Wayland by now.

by fsh 4y ago

Wayland is the default on Fedora, Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Debian. The majority of desktop linux users is probably on Wayland by now.

IceWreck 4y ago

Conditionally default. Except the latest version of Fedora, all the others fallback to X on nvidia hardware.

ddtaylor 4y ago

The majority of graphics cards are Nvidia which don't play nicely at all with Wayland.

fsh 4y ago
The average user has a laptop with an Intel or AMD iGPU. Gaming machine are niche.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pauby 4y ago
  The average user isn't running a Linux desktop.
  - lproven 4y ago
    That may not be true any more. ChromeBooks were outselling Macs from 2017-2021, although the pandemic meant hundreds of millions of people suddenly needed new computers for remote working and the kids to use for remote schooling, so sales spiked and have since collapsed. But they sold ITRO 100 million units per year for several years. China's 5-3-2 program is also nearing its end: https://medium.com/technicity/chinese-3-5-2-policy-is-a-major-move-towards-tech-independence-48d178157b3f https://medium.com/technicity/chinese-3-5-2-policy-is-a-majo... That means hundreds of millions more Linux PCs in the PRoC. As such, that's somewhere around quarter to half a billion Linux desktops in the last few years, and maybe twice that. Windows PC sales are struggling: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3675895/pc-sales-fall-off-a-cliff.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3675895/pc-sales-fall-... Still hundreds of millions of units, but they're falling. More people are staring at Linux all day than you might think.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Chrome OS isn't Linux desktop. Even if you mention Linux sandbox environment, it is only available in selected models.
      - lproven 4y ago
        I disagree. It's a relatively standard distro up until the GUI layer, based on Gentoo. I'd agree that Android is something else, but ChromeOS is mostly the usual GNU + Linux stuff, and a weird display server which is Chrome rendering direct to the screen.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        Then have fun running GNU stuff on ChromeOS, specially the devices that don't support the GNU/Linux sandox (crostini). Maybe take advantage of WASM for it. And even if Crostini is available, the usual stuff https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439 -- Cameras aren't yet supported. -- Android devices are supported over USB, but other devices aren't yet supported. -- Android Emulators aren't yet supported. -- Hardware acceleration isn't yet supported, including GPU and video decode. -- ChromeVox is supported for the default Terminal app, but not yet for other Linux apps.
        isr 4y ago
        A bit late to this party, but you are woefully, badly misinformed as to what ChromeOS is, and what you can run on it. Well over a decade ago, I was running a full suite of gnu-linux devtools, natively, within chromeos. You don't even need to install a chroot from another distro. Just get a gcc (chromebrew was the first to package this), and the rest is just gentoo linux (with portage ripped out - and in the early days, you could run a shell script which PUT PORTAGE BACK IN). And if you take the time to understand the wierd partitioning layout, a couple of bind mounts in the right places is all you need to get the chromeos gui file manager (which is rather crappy, btw) to see your stuff.
        lproven 4y ago
  - pabs3 4y ago
    The average user isn't running a desktop.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      Oof, that hits hard, but you're probably right: I expect there are more people who primarily (or even exclusively) use a smartphone or tablet than a general-purpose computer running a general-purpose OS. It's a sad state of affairs, to be sure.
      - pabs3 4y ago
        There are libre mobile devices, but approximately no-one uses them, just like approximately no-one uses Linux on the desktop. Unless some large vendors start shipping Linux by default on all their devices, or the current mainstream OS vendors become really obnoxious and people go searching for alternative devices with Linux installed by default, that isn't going to change since people really don't want to have to do installs themselves.
  - topaz0 4y ago
    I have been running linux on various hardware since about 2003. Zero of those computers had discrete gpus.
    - NoGravitas 4y ago
      The last Linux box I used that had a discrete gpu had a Matrox G400 (released 1999). Every one since then has been Intel onboard.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    No, but the average Linux user has probably been bitten by nvidia compat issues so much in the past that they're even more likely than the average generic laptop user to be using Intel or AMD graphics.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vetinari 4y ago
> The majority of graphics cards are Nvidia The majority of graphics cards are Intel.
- __d 4y ago
  Very few graphics cards are Intel.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    OK, since we are splitting hair there, then most graphics controllers and gpus used are Intel. Also note, that users that use graphics cards are minority themselves.
messe 4y ago
This isn't nearly as true as it used to be. I regularly game on KDE Plasma on Wayland on a 3080 Ti with the proprietary NVIDIA drivers, and it works fine.

ravishi 4y ago

Until they have to share screen in a meeting and give up tweaking flags in different places, login using X and never look back again. Seriously for anyone who works remotely sharing screen is essential, but it still doesn't work flawlessly in Wayland.

JoshTriplett 4y ago
> Until they have to share screen in a meeting This was absolutely true, until I switched to pipewire. Once I did, this started to just work, with no issues whatsoever. (No configuration required, just followed Debian's package dependencies switching to pipewire and it started working in Firefox.)
- kelnos 4y ago
  So then, in other words, the default setup is still broken?
  - JoshTriplett 4y ago
    No, for many distros the default setup is now pipewire.
3836293648 4y ago
Screensharing works perfectly in firefox and given how awful linux versions of zoom, teams, etc are, that's all that matters
pelorat 4y ago
Just do real time video encoding of the screen and forget about X.

yyyk 4y ago

I recall none of these distros change existing installs, also plasma (KDE) is often still on X11. So it depends on proportions of new users+new installs+selected DE+video card...