3 ms·

LA and SF seem trapped by their design. Sure they need way higher density, but that would require transit that handles density better than cars on a road. But

LA and SF seem trapped by their design. Sure they need way higher density, but that would require transit that handles density better than cars on a road. But in order to build high capacity transit they want people to prove that it would be fully utilized and that won't be true if you're servicing areas that are currently all single family homes. So high density housing can't be build because there is no transit, and high capacity transit can't be built because there is no high density housing.

BryantD 4y ago
SF is trapped because there are well-organized community groups in the Western half of the city that will actively block density increase for the same sorts of reasons described here. You can get to higher density incrementally, but not if it’s always stopped at the beginning.
jamestimmins 4y ago
Yes and no. That's certainly a factor, but outside of work, people also tend to stay pretty close to their neighborhoods (I've been able to walk to my grocery store in the last 3 neighborhoods I've lived in). There's also been substantial work to build new mass transit, but housing hasn't increased substantially around the transit stops. Edit: I'm referring to LA. My impression is SF is small enough that this isn't a big issue.
- josuepeq 4y ago
  SF is small, hilly, and consists of many square miles of single family homes; with cars being the predominant way around town. Less than 2000 feet from the geographical center of town, I live in a fully detached single family home with a huge backyard. My Walkscore of 35 equates to the nearest full line supermarket being a solid mile away, mostly flat, the nearest corner store is 0.8 miles away with 364 feet of elevation changes, too. :30 minutes between runs of the bus means that all of my neighbors and I tend to drive everywhere. Trust me, this is not ideal.
screye 4y ago
At approximately 5x5 miles, SF is one of the smallest American cities while having among the worst housing crunch in the world. SF doesn't need high speed metro. Cheap options like BRT, trams & separated bike/scooter lanes solve most of its variable demand. In SF, the transit vs housing conundrum is trivial. Build transit, and remove height restrictions in a 1000-ft radius in each stops location. LA is harder to remedy. The city is so catastrophically designed, that any fix will bleed money before it ever stabilizes. At the same time, LA's housing isn't as expensive as SF. So, they could start with focusing on public transportation exclusively. (BRT + park-n-rides seem perfect for LA) and worrying about the zoning later.
- zamnos 4y ago
  I don't mean to nitpick, but why state it as 5x5, when it's far more popular for it to be denoted as 7x7, to the point that one of there local magazines is called 7x7. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7x7_(magazine) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7x7_(magazine)
  - screye 4y ago
    What a coincidence! I had no idea there was an existing phrase for this. I merely eyeballed it from google maps. I guess all people deal in the same tired cliches. I am not exception.

BryantD 4y ago

SF is trapped because there are well-organized community groups in the Western half of the city that will actively block density increase for the same sorts of reasons described here. You can get to higher density incrementally, but not if it’s always stopped at the beginning.

jamestimmins 4y ago

Yes and no. That's certainly a factor, but outside of work, people also tend to stay pretty close to their neighborhoods (I've been able to walk to my grocery store in the last 3 neighborhoods I've lived in). There's also been substantial work to build new mass transit, but housing hasn't increased substantially around the transit stops. Edit: I'm referring to LA. My impression is SF is small enough that this isn't a big issue.

josuepeq 4y ago
SF is small, hilly, and consists of many square miles of single family homes; with cars being the predominant way around town. Less than 2000 feet from the geographical center of town, I live in a fully detached single family home with a huge backyard. My Walkscore of 35 equates to the nearest full line supermarket being a solid mile away, mostly flat, the nearest corner store is 0.8 miles away with 364 feet of elevation changes, too. :30 minutes between runs of the bus means that all of my neighbors and I tend to drive everywhere. Trust me, this is not ideal.

screye 4y ago

At approximately 5x5 miles, SF is one of the smallest American cities while having among the worst housing crunch in the world. SF doesn't need high speed metro. Cheap options like BRT, trams & separated bike/scooter lanes solve most of its variable demand. In SF, the transit vs housing conundrum is trivial. Build transit, and remove height restrictions in a 1000-ft radius in each stops location. LA is harder to remedy. The city is so catastrophically designed, that any fix will bleed money before it ever stabilizes. At the same time, LA's housing isn't as expensive as SF. So, they could start with focusing on public transportation exclusively. (BRT + park-n-rides seem perfect for LA) and worrying about the zoning later.

zamnos 4y ago
I don't mean to nitpick, but why state it as 5x5, when it's far more popular for it to be denoted as 7x7, to the point that one of there local magazines is called 7x7. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7x7_(magazine) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7x7_(magazine)
- screye 4y ago
  What a coincidence! I had no idea there was an existing phrase for this. I merely eyeballed it from google maps. I guess all people deal in the same tired cliches. I am not exception.