4 ms·

I’m a pro-car, pro-liberty kind of American, and I just arrived back from a few minutes ago from a trip to Amsterdam. God. Damn. They’re doing something right

I’m a pro-car, pro-liberty kind of American, and I just arrived back from a few minutes ago from a trip to Amsterdam. God. Damn. They’re doing something right there. Didn’t use a car a single time, and was better off for it. I love my car and the open road, but I think I might prefer walkable cities… It feels like a more natural way to live. America feels very rigid and disconnected by comparison.

dangoor 4y ago
Totally agreed. I went to Copenhagen last summer and it was _really nice_.
rexreed 4y ago
The closest you'll get to that European-style city in the US is Boston. It's very walkable, high density public transport, and quite a bit of charm in my opinion. Also cars are clearly an after-thought in Boston proper.
- jandrese 4y ago
  I would have thought New York City would also qualify.
  - rexreed 4y ago
    NYC definitely has urban density and good public transport, but it's much bigger than Boston, and more car-friendly than Boston.
jandrese 4y ago
You might want to take a look at biking again. Most people think "oh no, I live in a suburb it will be impossible", but once you really give it a shot you might be surprised at how many places you can reach on a bike. A 5 mile bike commute sounds like it will be impossible, but it only took me about a month to acclimate to it and I'm hardy a fitness nut. Now I only drive when the weather is particularly nasty or there is too much ice on the ground. Also, the selection of affordable e-Bikes has absolutely exploded over the past couple of years and they can seriously open up opportunities if you're willing to try. Just because people say that American suburbs require a car doesn't make it true.
- BrianHenryIE 4y ago
  I agree people don't realise how easy and useful a bike can be for them. People's main regret is not trying it sooner!
  - Gualdrapo 4y ago
    And versatile. From getting your groceries to exploring those places you'd never been before. Not even speaking about the benefits for your health. Here in Latin America we somehow imported the car-centric culture from the USA but slowly people has been realizing it just don't fit too well our own complexities. Things like the Ciclovía[1] here in Bogotá came to be in part of that - people didn't liked how we surrended that much space for cars, and people wanted to do some workout. Why can't we take some of that space for that, at least temporarily? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclovía https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclovía
- petodo 4y ago
  5 miles (8km) on regular bike is quite far also depending on terrain and traffic, but I was riding bike to work 4km in Beijing traffic (!) and I could do it in 15-20 minutes (faster than bus doing detours, no subway between these two locations and obviously no trams there), although to this day I am still amazed I never had accident considering the traffic, cars driving wrong direction in MY separated bike lane, etc.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    It seems like that for the first month or so, but once your legs acclimate it's really not a problem. Only takes like 30 minutes even at a stately pace. The biggest delay is waiting for the traffic signals that can't see you because you aren't a 2 ton hunk of steel.
    - petodo 4y ago
      I mean the distance ain't exhausting, but in real life conditions it will take minimum 30 (that's quite aggressive biking and lucky with traffic) and more like 40 minutes ride one way which is just too much on bike in traffic, that's already too long time. All my times are for normal bike, not ebike, if you go for ebike might as well go for small motorbike, it will be cheaper, faster and more convenient to use.
twblalock 4y ago
The real question is how you would like to live in one of the rowhouses there, compared to what you can get in America.
- GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
  Having lived in both SF / NYC and Amsterdam, the Dutch flats have a much higher standard for everything, lighting / heat / appliances. Good luck finding a place in NYC that's not a renovation nightmare hiding under a thin coat of paint
  - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
    NYC is a poor comparison since it too is a quite walkable city. A better comparison might be Cleveland or Chicago, which are much more Americanly unwalkable commuter cities
    - tptacek 4y ago
      Chicago is consistently ranked one of the most walkable cities in the country; New York is more walkable, but Chicago isn't "unwalkable".
      - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
        Point taken, let’s just mock Cleveland then :D
        tptacek 4y ago
        I've never been in Cleveland at less than 70MPH, so, sure. But if someone who knows Cleveland really well shoots this down, I'm going to be on their side. :)
- jswrenn 4y ago
  I, for one, would very much so like to live in a row house, but they're nigh illegal to construct in my city.
GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
Did you go to any of the rural areas around Amsterdam? It's insane how connected they are to Centraal, you can take a bus for 20 minutes and be out in idyllic countryside north of Amsterdam
throw0101c 4y ago
> I love my car and the open road, but I think I might prefer walkable cities… The more people that have walking, cycling, and transit as an option, the fewer people may drive, reducing congestion for the folks that have no choice to drive (e.g., deliveries, service techs, etc), or those that may need/want to drive only occasionally. Not Just Bikes (of course) had a video "The Best Country in the World for Drivers": > The Netherlands is famous for bicycles, and putting walking, cycling, and public transit ahead of cars. Yet paradoxically, it's the best place in the world to be a driver. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k Further, by having higher density (and not even the Manhattan-levels that some folks think when they hear "urban"), you need less land, which means you don't have to pave over rural areas as much and you get more actual nature.
foxyv 4y ago
I think a huge barrier to walkable cities in America is you have to travel to Europe to even see one. No one can even visit to see what it is like without a lot of money and effort. Once we have even one decent, walkable city we will probably see an explosion of people saying "I want THAT!" I too love driving and look forward to car free cities. Driving in cities sucks anyways.

dangoor 4y ago

Totally agreed. I went to Copenhagen last summer and it was _really nice_.

rexreed 4y ago

The closest you'll get to that European-style city in the US is Boston. It's very walkable, high density public transport, and quite a bit of charm in my opinion. Also cars are clearly an after-thought in Boston proper.

jandrese 4y ago
I would have thought New York City would also qualify.
- rexreed 4y ago
  NYC definitely has urban density and good public transport, but it's much bigger than Boston, and more car-friendly than Boston.

jandrese 4y ago

You might want to take a look at biking again. Most people think "oh no, I live in a suburb it will be impossible", but once you really give it a shot you might be surprised at how many places you can reach on a bike. A 5 mile bike commute sounds like it will be impossible, but it only took me about a month to acclimate to it and I'm hardy a fitness nut. Now I only drive when the weather is particularly nasty or there is too much ice on the ground. Also, the selection of affordable e-Bikes has absolutely exploded over the past couple of years and they can seriously open up opportunities if you're willing to try. Just because people say that American suburbs require a car doesn't make it true.

BrianHenryIE 4y ago
I agree people don't realise how easy and useful a bike can be for them. People's main regret is not trying it sooner!
- Gualdrapo 4y ago
  And versatile. From getting your groceries to exploring those places you'd never been before. Not even speaking about the benefits for your health. Here in Latin America we somehow imported the car-centric culture from the USA but slowly people has been realizing it just don't fit too well our own complexities. Things like the Ciclovía[1] here in Bogotá came to be in part of that - people didn't liked how we surrended that much space for cars, and people wanted to do some workout. Why can't we take some of that space for that, at least temporarily? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclovía https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclovía
petodo 4y ago
5 miles (8km) on regular bike is quite far also depending on terrain and traffic, but I was riding bike to work 4km in Beijing traffic (!) and I could do it in 15-20 minutes (faster than bus doing detours, no subway between these two locations and obviously no trams there), although to this day I am still amazed I never had accident considering the traffic, cars driving wrong direction in MY separated bike lane, etc.
- jandrese 4y ago
  It seems like that for the first month or so, but once your legs acclimate it's really not a problem. Only takes like 30 minutes even at a stately pace. The biggest delay is waiting for the traffic signals that can't see you because you aren't a 2 ton hunk of steel.
  - petodo 4y ago
    I mean the distance ain't exhausting, but in real life conditions it will take minimum 30 (that's quite aggressive biking and lucky with traffic) and more like 40 minutes ride one way which is just too much on bike in traffic, that's already too long time. All my times are for normal bike, not ebike, if you go for ebike might as well go for small motorbike, it will be cheaper, faster and more convenient to use.

twblalock 4y ago

The real question is how you would like to live in one of the rowhouses there, compared to what you can get in America.

GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
Having lived in both SF / NYC and Amsterdam, the Dutch flats have a much higher standard for everything, lighting / heat / appliances. Good luck finding a place in NYC that's not a renovation nightmare hiding under a thin coat of paint
- andrewxdiamond 4y ago
  NYC is a poor comparison since it too is a quite walkable city. A better comparison might be Cleveland or Chicago, which are much more Americanly unwalkable commuter cities
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Chicago is consistently ranked one of the most walkable cities in the country; New York is more walkable, but Chicago isn't "unwalkable".
    - andrewxdiamond 4y ago
      Point taken, let’s just mock Cleveland then :D
      - tptacek 4y ago
        I've never been in Cleveland at less than 70MPH, so, sure. But if someone who knows Cleveland really well shoots this down, I'm going to be on their side. :)
jswrenn 4y ago
I, for one, would very much so like to live in a row house, but they're nigh illegal to construct in my city.

GaryNumanVevo 4y ago

Did you go to any of the rural areas around Amsterdam? It's insane how connected they are to Centraal, you can take a bus for 20 minutes and be out in idyllic countryside north of Amsterdam

throw0101c 4y ago

> I love my car and the open road, but I think I might prefer walkable cities… The more people that have walking, cycling, and transit as an option, the fewer people may drive, reducing congestion for the folks that have no choice to drive (e.g., deliveries, service techs, etc), or those that may need/want to drive only occasionally. Not Just Bikes (of course) had a video "The Best Country in the World for Drivers": > The Netherlands is famous for bicycles, and putting walking, cycling, and public transit ahead of cars. Yet paradoxically, it's the best place in the world to be a driver. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k Further, by having higher density (and not even the Manhattan-levels that some folks think when they hear "urban"), you need less land, which means you don't have to pave over rural areas as much and you get more actual nature.

foxyv 4y ago

I think a huge barrier to walkable cities in America is you have to travel to Europe to even see one. No one can even visit to see what it is like without a lot of money and effort. Once we have even one decent, walkable city we will probably see an explosion of people saying "I want THAT!" I too love driving and look forward to car free cities. Driving in cities sucks anyways.