3 ms·

Wonder how they expect this to mesh with the new EU law mandating, among other things, open app ecosystems. Will Britons just import their phones from France?

BasedInfra 4y ago
UK is not a part of the EU so it wouldn’t have to mesh at all unless I’m missing something?
- giobox 4y ago
  Sure, but its not that hard or expensive to hop a ferry/train/plane trip to France or Ireland and buy an unlocked phone, as one example. Any laws the UK passes have to account for the geographical realities of its location. Just because the UK is no longer in the EU doesn't mean its not affected by many of its decisions, given the enormous volume of trade that will continue to occur between them.
  - InCityDreams 4y ago
    >Any laws the UK passes have to account for the geographical realities of its location. The sun never sets.....
    - giobox 4y ago
      And the Channel between England and France is a mere 20 miles at its narrowest point, Ireland is 12 (the UK's nearest EU neighbors). You can argue it down to zero miles for Ireland if you start your journey in Northern Ireland. The sun absolutely does set on what little is left of the "British Empire" in the 21st century.
      - blibble 4y ago
        > The sun absolutely does set on what little is left of the "British Empire" in the 21st century. I suggest you look at the locations of the British Overseas Territories
        giobox 4y ago
        The famous phrase was as much about the relative geo-political strength of the empire in the 18th and 19th centuries as much as it has to do with actually being able to see a sunset... but feel free to take it literally if you like.
        blibble 4y ago
        this subthread is literally about geography
        giobox 4y ago
        Its literally about the quote widely used to generally describe the nature of 19th century British power, but ok! > The sun never sets... > https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-empire-on-which-the-sun-never-sets.html https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-empire-on-which-the-...
  - lozenge 4y ago
    What happens when you get stopped and searched in the UK (probable cause isn't a factor here) and they find a "special encryption" phone?
    - giobox 4y ago
      I hate to break the bad news, but people break laws all the time, including in the UK. People will just manage the risk exactly like any other law they choose to ignore. Criminals still carry blades as weapons in the UK, despite it being a strict liability crime and at risk of stop and search.
- skissane 4y ago
  Some EU laws apply in Northern Ireland - I don’t know about laws in this area specifically. If a phone is legal in the EU, the UK may be required under the Northern Ireland Protocol (and the new “Windsor Framework”) to allow it in Northern Ireland. If they have to make a phone legal in Northern Ireland, it will be very hard to ban it in England, Scotland and Wales
CommanderData 4y ago
[flagged]
- bbg2401 4y ago
  Speak for yourself.
dane-pgp 4y ago
Presumably mobile networks will be required to only grant internet service to phones that were bought in the UK (or that have been registered with a foreign network for more than N months). I'm not sure how easy it is for networks to filter by IMEI (and presumably there would have to be a database for recording which IMEIs were sold with UK-compliant OSes) but eventually there would be a system which covered all access to the internet, not just from phones. This means broadband ISPs doing a Remote Attestation check before routing any other packets from your device. A proof of concept for this has been implemented for some online games already.[0] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/riot-games-anti-cheat-software-will-require-tpm-secure-boot-on-windows-11/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/riot-games-anti-cheat...
- flangola7 4y ago
  Even with attestation you could just daisy chain and use the attesting device as a proxy. Not to mentioned the billion of internet enabled devices that would never support it
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > Even with attestation you could just daisy chain and use the attesting device as a proxy. But you'd need the attested device to run the proxy server software, which would obviously not be allowed in the app store, and would be blocked by the gatekeeper daemon or the OS-level firewall. Well, proxy software would be allowed, but it would have to perform its own attestation checks on the devices it proxies for. > Not to mentioned the billion of internet enabled devices that would never support it The billion internet enabled devices would be allowed onto a special "safe" segment of the internet, which companies could apply to add their static IPs to. So your internet connected fridge could still phone home, but the manufacturer would take liability for any data that a rooted fridge managed to send out to the internet. There might still be millions of old devices that don't support TPMs and don't have manufacturers willing to apply to have their IPs whitelisted, but the government will say that kicking these insecure unpatched devices off their internet would be a huge win for cybersecurity. Making people buy a whole load of new devices would probably also give a temporary boost to the economy too.

BasedInfra 4y ago

UK is not a part of the EU so it wouldn’t have to mesh at all unless I’m missing something?

giobox 4y ago
Sure, but its not that hard or expensive to hop a ferry/train/plane trip to France or Ireland and buy an unlocked phone, as one example. Any laws the UK passes have to account for the geographical realities of its location. Just because the UK is no longer in the EU doesn't mean its not affected by many of its decisions, given the enormous volume of trade that will continue to occur between them.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  >Any laws the UK passes have to account for the geographical realities of its location. The sun never sets.....
  - giobox 4y ago
    And the Channel between England and France is a mere 20 miles at its narrowest point, Ireland is 12 (the UK's nearest EU neighbors). You can argue it down to zero miles for Ireland if you start your journey in Northern Ireland. The sun absolutely does set on what little is left of the "British Empire" in the 21st century.
    - blibble 4y ago
      > The sun absolutely does set on what little is left of the "British Empire" in the 21st century. I suggest you look at the locations of the British Overseas Territories
      - giobox 4y ago
        The famous phrase was as much about the relative geo-political strength of the empire in the 18th and 19th centuries as much as it has to do with actually being able to see a sunset... but feel free to take it literally if you like.
        blibble 4y ago
        this subthread is literally about geography
        giobox 4y ago
        Its literally about the quote widely used to generally describe the nature of 19th century British power, but ok! > The sun never sets... > https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-empire-on-which-the-sun-never-sets.html https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-empire-on-which-the-...
- lozenge 4y ago
  What happens when you get stopped and searched in the UK (probable cause isn't a factor here) and they find a "special encryption" phone?
  - giobox 4y ago
    I hate to break the bad news, but people break laws all the time, including in the UK. People will just manage the risk exactly like any other law they choose to ignore. Criminals still carry blades as weapons in the UK, despite it being a strict liability crime and at risk of stop and search.
skissane 4y ago
Some EU laws apply in Northern Ireland - I don’t know about laws in this area specifically. If a phone is legal in the EU, the UK may be required under the Northern Ireland Protocol (and the new “Windsor Framework”) to allow it in Northern Ireland. If they have to make a phone legal in Northern Ireland, it will be very hard to ban it in England, Scotland and Wales

CommanderData 4y ago

[flagged]

bbg2401 4y ago
Speak for yourself.

dane-pgp 4y ago

Presumably mobile networks will be required to only grant internet service to phones that were bought in the UK (or that have been registered with a foreign network for more than N months). I'm not sure how easy it is for networks to filter by IMEI (and presumably there would have to be a database for recording which IMEIs were sold with UK-compliant OSes) but eventually there would be a system which covered all access to the internet, not just from phones. This means broadband ISPs doing a Remote Attestation check before routing any other packets from your device. A proof of concept for this has been implemented for some online games already.[0] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/riot-games-anti-cheat-software-will-require-tpm-secure-boot-on-windows-11/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/riot-games-anti-cheat...

flangola7 4y ago
Even with attestation you could just daisy chain and use the attesting device as a proxy. Not to mentioned the billion of internet enabled devices that would never support it
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > Even with attestation you could just daisy chain and use the attesting device as a proxy. But you'd need the attested device to run the proxy server software, which would obviously not be allowed in the app store, and would be blocked by the gatekeeper daemon or the OS-level firewall. Well, proxy software would be allowed, but it would have to perform its own attestation checks on the devices it proxies for. > Not to mentioned the billion of internet enabled devices that would never support it The billion internet enabled devices would be allowed onto a special "safe" segment of the internet, which companies could apply to add their static IPs to. So your internet connected fridge could still phone home, but the manufacturer would take liability for any data that a rooted fridge managed to send out to the internet. There might still be millions of old devices that don't support TPMs and don't have manufacturers willing to apply to have their IPs whitelisted, but the government will say that kicking these insecure unpatched devices off their internet would be a huge win for cybersecurity. Making people buy a whole load of new devices would probably also give a temporary boost to the economy too.