4 ms·

He didn't staff a team of compiler engineers to do it. Doesn't matter how good it is when mature languages that reach the mainstream all have compilers funded b

by lanza 4y ago

He didn't staff a team of compiler engineers to do it. Doesn't matter how good it is when mature languages that reach the mainstream all have compilers funded by 10 people at a tech giant and cppfront is just Sutter screwing around in his free time. Google threw the weight of their top C++ engineers behind Carbon. It's happening. That's really what matters in the world of programming languages. Not how good it is.

taraharris 4y ago
Just watch what happens to Google and their ad revenues in this downturn, by the way. I knew people that were hyping Fuschia, and then Google cut deepest from that on their first round of layoffs. It wouldn't be a shock to me if they yank out the carpet from this Carbon thing one day, or have it limp along like Dart. In summary, Google can do what it wants, but I'll just keep using C++ no matter what it does. I spend all my time in and on HaikuOS now, so for me C++ here here to stay :)
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Fuschia is shipping on Nest devices though.
  - pornel 4y ago
    It's on a device that is unimportant to Google, and it's just an implementation detail. Fuschia could disappear entirely in one software update, or with cancellation of the Nest product line. I like the ideas Fuschia is trying to implement, but unfortunately it still looks like a small experiment with an uncertain future.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Even if it dies tomorrow, it already achieved more than many wannabe OS out there, so there is that. And who knows, just like it happened with Singularity and Midori having an impact on .NET design since WinRT, some Fuchsia ideas can be brought into Android in that case.
- smallstepforman 4y ago
  It's good to see that you're having fun with Haiku. I actually enjoyed programming for Haiku a couple of years back on my Haiku only project (Medo), these days I'm 100% exhausted with my day job (and my previous company went into liquidation and I changed jobs / continents), and it's hard to make the time for passion projects. Best of luck with your project, I look forward to seeing it released one day.
  - taraharris 4y ago
    Whoa cool! Medo is awesome! Thanks! I'm working on a port of Solvespace to Haiku. My goal is ultimately to give it a native UI and some new features, but I'm still early in the process. The latest thing I got working was some pixels in the screen from a replacement 2D renderer that uses AGG instead of Cairo. I post screenshots to Twitter as I go (@realtaraharris).
- warkdarrior 4y ago
  Fuschia is open source, so no matter what Google does in this downturn, you can still use Fuschia for your needs. https://cs.opensource.google/fuchsia https://cs.opensource.google/fuchsia
  - brookst 4y ago
    There’s “meets my needs today, which include a belief in the ling term viability and talent pipeline”, and there’s “the small project I wrote can keep running on obsolete hardware forever”
- surajrmal 4y ago
  Why do you think Dart is limping along? It has a very large team working on it and a very popular framework built on top. I think it may even be more popular and get more investment than golang. Google would probably be happy if Carbon is as successful as dart. Also being dismissive of Fuchsia being a dead end despite contributing to Haiku seems a bit ironic.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
UncleOxidant 4y ago
> Google threw the weight of their top C++ engineers behind Carbon. It's happening. Google has a notoriously short attention span.
Shish2k 4y ago
> Google threw the weight of their top C++ engineers behind Carbon. It's happening. Google throws their weight behind a lot of projects. You can find a list of 282 of those projects here: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
laurentlb 4y ago
Carbon is explicitly marked as experimental and is not used yet at Google. The contributions from Google can be stopped at any time. So it's too early to say that "it's happening". Right now, it's just an experiment.
tsoj 4y ago
The thing is, Sutter's approach is much more sensible when looking at real world adaptation. You can start using the cppfront transpiler, and importantly, if it doesn't work out, you can just use the C++ code generated by cppfront (which Herb Sutter said is meant to be idiomatic and human-readable). From a risk perspective, a developer will have a much easier time convincing a manager to try using cppfront instead of Carbon. Maybe once Carbon reaches a stable 1.0 release and has seen some success in production (~2026 maybe?), that point won't be as important, but especially in the beginning it seems to me a deciding factor.

by lanza 4y ago

taraharris 4y ago

Just watch what happens to Google and their ad revenues in this downturn, by the way. I knew people that were hyping Fuschia, and then Google cut deepest from that on their first round of layoffs. It wouldn't be a shock to me if they yank out the carpet from this Carbon thing one day, or have it limp along like Dart. In summary, Google can do what it wants, but I'll just keep using C++ no matter what it does. I spend all my time in and on HaikuOS now, so for me C++ here here to stay :)

pjmlp 4y ago
Fuschia is shipping on Nest devices though.
- pornel 4y ago
  It's on a device that is unimportant to Google, and it's just an implementation detail. Fuschia could disappear entirely in one software update, or with cancellation of the Nest product line. I like the ideas Fuschia is trying to implement, but unfortunately it still looks like a small experiment with an uncertain future.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Even if it dies tomorrow, it already achieved more than many wannabe OS out there, so there is that. And who knows, just like it happened with Singularity and Midori having an impact on .NET design since WinRT, some Fuchsia ideas can be brought into Android in that case.
smallstepforman 4y ago
It's good to see that you're having fun with Haiku. I actually enjoyed programming for Haiku a couple of years back on my Haiku only project (Medo), these days I'm 100% exhausted with my day job (and my previous company went into liquidation and I changed jobs / continents), and it's hard to make the time for passion projects. Best of luck with your project, I look forward to seeing it released one day.
- taraharris 4y ago
  Whoa cool! Medo is awesome! Thanks! I'm working on a port of Solvespace to Haiku. My goal is ultimately to give it a native UI and some new features, but I'm still early in the process. The latest thing I got working was some pixels in the screen from a replacement 2D renderer that uses AGG instead of Cairo. I post screenshots to Twitter as I go (@realtaraharris).
warkdarrior 4y ago
Fuschia is open source, so no matter what Google does in this downturn, you can still use Fuschia for your needs. https://cs.opensource.google/fuchsia https://cs.opensource.google/fuchsia
- brookst 4y ago
  There’s “meets my needs today, which include a belief in the ling term viability and talent pipeline”, and there’s “the small project I wrote can keep running on obsolete hardware forever”
surajrmal 4y ago
Why do you think Dart is limping along? It has a very large team working on it and a very popular framework built on top. I think it may even be more popular and get more investment than golang. Google would probably be happy if Carbon is as successful as dart. Also being dismissive of Fuchsia being a dead end despite contributing to Haiku seems a bit ironic.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

UncleOxidant 4y ago

> Google threw the weight of their top C++ engineers behind Carbon. It's happening. Google has a notoriously short attention span.

Shish2k 4y ago

> Google threw the weight of their top C++ engineers behind Carbon. It's happening. Google throws their weight behind a lot of projects. You can find a list of 282 of those projects here: https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

laurentlb 4y ago

Carbon is explicitly marked as experimental and is not used yet at Google. The contributions from Google can be stopped at any time. So it's too early to say that "it's happening". Right now, it's just an experiment.

tsoj 4y ago

The thing is, Sutter's approach is much more sensible when looking at real world adaptation. You can start using the cppfront transpiler, and importantly, if it doesn't work out, you can just use the C++ code generated by cppfront (which Herb Sutter said is meant to be idiomatic and human-readable). From a risk perspective, a developer will have a much easier time convincing a manager to try using cppfront instead of Carbon. Maybe once Carbon reaches a stable 1.0 release and has seen some success in production (~2026 maybe?), that point won't be as important, but especially in the beginning it seems to me a deciding factor.