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> So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. My personal experience and the experience of men I know is

> So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. My personal experience and the experience of men I know is that this is not how it turns out. If you were never attractive before to women, you don't suddenly become attractive to them when you're older. Just because you hit staff and make $500k/yr doesn't mean they want to be with you. Just because you have built up incredible emotional maturity, stability, and intellect doesn't mean someone wants to be with you. End of the day - whether or not they find you physically attractive is the most important thing above all - it's the bare minimum to start an interaction (especially with online but more and more true with in person these days too). This idea that average looking guys just needed to hit 30 before they got to date all the hot 20-somethings is so farfetched and delusional. It's often spoken by men who were rich, physically attractive, and had great social networks but had severe social anxiety and learned later in life how to lessen their social anxiety. Once they did that - wow - suddenly they're having sex with lots of women... Surprise, women were always interested in you, you just never took it further because you had social anxiety. Lots of men don't have social anxiety but are just fuggos. They're not gonna have stuff change when they get older short of doing significant cosmetic surgery. Which, again, is not related to age but more related to getting cosmetic surgery done. You can do that when you're 18 and not wait until you're 30. Look at the tiktok shit that's going on. Women have increasingly deluded sense of what men and women should look like. Social media and casual access to the top physically attractive men has completely distorted how the sexual marketplace is working. It's leaving a lot of people lonely and a lot of people very bitter.

kingstoned 4y ago
True. In developed, rich countries with welfare state and feminism, women don't need individual men. Instead, they can rely on government and corporations to be their protector & provider. When ecological pressures are relaxed, sexual selection (i.e. looks) becomes the dominant factor in mate selection. I suggest you read this blog: https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-entire-modern-mating-framework-has-shifted-and-its-evolutionary-consequences/ https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-...
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  What an absurdly sexist take, maybe women want to be with someone who is (actually, not 'nice guy') nice and doesn't think that money will get them laid?
  - bilqis 4y ago
    While you’re right, and the guy is an incel, I want to mention that for longer periods of time women were forced into living with men just because it usually was the only way of survival. After emancipation, many men basically lost the single attractive trait they have - having a salary. So many men who are now experiencing problems with finding a partner now, say due to being a nasty/abusive/uninteresting/unintelligent/ugly, 80-100 years ago would be able to land a wife just by being the only person in the family who could provide. So in 2023, when they have to date equals, who are financially independent, they are experiencing “celibacy”.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      This is such tired, trite, and inaccurate take on the dating market. Talk to more young men. If you think 60% of young men are nasty/abusive/unintelligent/ugly to the point of not deserving any partners - you're clearly insane.
      - zamnos 4y ago
        We must be talking to a different 60% or have different opinions on what constitutes abuse then. Andrew Tate is plenty popular with a certain subset of boys.
        roarcher 4y ago
        Like all meme influencers, Andrew Tate is popular with a subset of the subset of people who spend way too much time on the internet. If you think that's 60% of men/boys, then perhaps you're part of the subset that spends too much time on the internet. I've never heard anyone even mention his name IRL.
deleted 4y ago
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whack 4y ago
I think the person you're replying to has a valid point. Attraction isn't a binary, it's a spectrum. As a guy in your early 20s who has left the the college bubble, your eligible dating pool is at its very smallest size. Women generally prefer not to date a guy significantly younger than them, so you're basically left with the girls your age. Guys don't have similar issues with dating younger women, so that 23-year old you just asked out is also going to be asked out by guys in their late 20s who are richer, have more impressive career accomplishments, and are more mature. As you get older, your pool of eligible partners keeps growing. Whereas for women, their pool of eligible partners keeps shrinking. For the exact same reasons discussed above. This isn't going to radically transform your life and land you a supermodel. But it does improve your odds in a noticeable way. Someone who used to think of you as a 6 would now think of you as a 7. Maybe even an 8, depending on how you used your 20s. Going from a 6 to a 7 may not seem like much, but it makes a big difference in your dating life.
- deleted 4y ago
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boredtofears 4y ago
> If you were never attractive before to women, you don't suddenly become attractive to them when you're older. Most of the people I've known that say this about themselves usually fall into one of two camps: 1) They have glaringly obvious and simple things they can change about themselves that even I notice as a fairly fashion-clueless almost middle aged male. Wear pants that fit. Put a belt on. Shave (or shape) the spotty beard. Stop wearing the same style of clothes that you did as a college freshman. Go to the gym (or don't, I know plenty of overweight men that have productive dating lives because they are charismatic and fun to be around). 2) They have insanely high and hypocritical standards physical standards of beauty and discard anyone who does not reach them before even meeting them. There are very few people who truly need significant cosmetic surgery to enter the dating pool.

kingstoned 4y ago

True. In developed, rich countries with welfare state and feminism, women don't need individual men. Instead, they can rely on government and corporations to be their protector & provider. When ecological pressures are relaxed, sexual selection (i.e. looks) becomes the dominant factor in mate selection. I suggest you read this blog: https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-entire-modern-mating-framework-has-shifted-and-its-evolutionary-consequences/ https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-...

kevviiinn 4y ago
What an absurdly sexist take, maybe women want to be with someone who is (actually, not 'nice guy') nice and doesn't think that money will get them laid?
- bilqis 4y ago
  While you’re right, and the guy is an incel, I want to mention that for longer periods of time women were forced into living with men just because it usually was the only way of survival. After emancipation, many men basically lost the single attractive trait they have - having a salary. So many men who are now experiencing problems with finding a partner now, say due to being a nasty/abusive/uninteresting/unintelligent/ugly, 80-100 years ago would be able to land a wife just by being the only person in the family who could provide. So in 2023, when they have to date equals, who are financially independent, they are experiencing “celibacy”.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    This is such tired, trite, and inaccurate take on the dating market. Talk to more young men. If you think 60% of young men are nasty/abusive/unintelligent/ugly to the point of not deserving any partners - you're clearly insane.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      We must be talking to a different 60% or have different opinions on what constitutes abuse then. Andrew Tate is plenty popular with a certain subset of boys.
      - roarcher 4y ago
        Like all meme influencers, Andrew Tate is popular with a subset of the subset of people who spend way too much time on the internet. If you think that's 60% of men/boys, then perhaps you're part of the subset that spends too much time on the internet. I've never heard anyone even mention his name IRL.

deleted 4y ago

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whack 4y ago

I think the person you're replying to has a valid point. Attraction isn't a binary, it's a spectrum. As a guy in your early 20s who has left the the college bubble, your eligible dating pool is at its very smallest size. Women generally prefer not to date a guy significantly younger than them, so you're basically left with the girls your age. Guys don't have similar issues with dating younger women, so that 23-year old you just asked out is also going to be asked out by guys in their late 20s who are richer, have more impressive career accomplishments, and are more mature. As you get older, your pool of eligible partners keeps growing. Whereas for women, their pool of eligible partners keeps shrinking. For the exact same reasons discussed above. This isn't going to radically transform your life and land you a supermodel. But it does improve your odds in a noticeable way. Someone who used to think of you as a 6 would now think of you as a 7. Maybe even an 8, depending on how you used your 20s. Going from a 6 to a 7 may not seem like much, but it makes a big difference in your dating life.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

boredtofears 4y ago

> If you were never attractive before to women, you don't suddenly become attractive to them when you're older. Most of the people I've known that say this about themselves usually fall into one of two camps: 1) They have glaringly obvious and simple things they can change about themselves that even I notice as a fairly fashion-clueless almost middle aged male. Wear pants that fit. Put a belt on. Shave (or shape) the spotty beard. Stop wearing the same style of clothes that you did as a college freshman. Go to the gym (or don't, I know plenty of overweight men that have productive dating lives because they are charismatic and fun to be around). 2) They have insanely high and hypocritical standards physical standards of beauty and discard anyone who does not reach them before even meeting them. There are very few people who truly need significant cosmetic surgery to enter the dating pool.