3 ms·

> Doesn’t mean it’s a nonsense position to hold. I'm not sure on that. It's backed by very little legally or culturally. Lawyers, doctors, finance professiona

by ctvo 4y ago

> Doesn’t mean it’s a nonsense position to hold. I'm not sure on that. It's backed by very little legally or culturally. Lawyers, doctors, finance professionals, and other high paying, salaried professions include the expectation of more working hours, many times unexpectedly, to get the work done. Wanting the higher wages associated with a salaried position but the stability of hourly work seems like it's backed by little but personal entitlement.

ethanbond 4y ago
Yes and if you can do that without getting fired (or without struggling to find a better job) then that entitlement is obviously justified. Having negotiating power gives you all sorts of “entitlements” that aren’t written down anywhere, that’s the point of having negotiating power. The silly thing would be to earn all this negotiating power and then choosing to be miserable anyway because other people might call you entitled pejoratively.
mynameisvlad 4y ago
It might not be backed by much legally (and even then, that depends on your specific contract and the law where you’re at) but it most certainly has massive backing culturally. “9-5” is a very well known cultural concept. Around the world. The 40 hour work week is a well known cultural concept. Around the world. To say it’s not is literally ignoring decades worth of media making it known. Sure there’s nothing legally known as overtime when you’re salaried, but theres most certainly an implied cultural construct of a 40 hour work week and WLB around that number. While you may not be legally performing overtime, you most certainly are culturally if you work above 40 hours.
falcojr 4y ago
There are occasional things that might cause us to work an evening or weekend here or there or spend a week or two working more like 50-60 hours a week to meet a deadline. As long as it's rare, that's probably not unreasonable to most salaried employees. What is unreasonable is working non-stop such that you're literally sleeping on the floor. You can call it entitlement if you want, but I'm happy to be entitled and give a big middle finger to anybody that ever asks me to do that. I could easily find another job within weeks. Why put up with that kind of nonsense if you have the ability not to?
mcv 4y ago
> It's backed by very little legally or culturally. Isn't it? I thought this was exactly what people fought for 100 years ago: to limit the standard work week to 40 hours. The US played a leading role in that fight, and it's incredibly sad to see how Americans have forgotten their history. > Lawyers, doctors, finance professionals, and other high paying, salaried professions include the expectation of more working hours, many times unexpectedly, to get the work done. If you've got a job that depends on unexpected events, then of course there's going to be some irregularity. For most software engineers, that's not really an issue because their work can be planned and won't kill someone if it's not done by tomorrow. System administrators may be an exception in that they have to fix a server right now when there's an issue. But that's a different issue than making overtime standard, and I would expect those admins to be well compensated for their work during off-hours.

by ctvo 4y ago

ethanbond 4y ago

Yes and if you can do that without getting fired (or without struggling to find a better job) then that entitlement is obviously justified. Having negotiating power gives you all sorts of “entitlements” that aren’t written down anywhere, that’s the point of having negotiating power. The silly thing would be to earn all this negotiating power and then choosing to be miserable anyway because other people might call you entitled pejoratively.

mynameisvlad 4y ago

It might not be backed by much legally (and even then, that depends on your specific contract and the law where you’re at) but it most certainly has massive backing culturally. “9-5” is a very well known cultural concept. Around the world. The 40 hour work week is a well known cultural concept. Around the world. To say it’s not is literally ignoring decades worth of media making it known. Sure there’s nothing legally known as overtime when you’re salaried, but theres most certainly an implied cultural construct of a 40 hour work week and WLB around that number. While you may not be legally performing overtime, you most certainly are culturally if you work above 40 hours.

falcojr 4y ago

There are occasional things that might cause us to work an evening or weekend here or there or spend a week or two working more like 50-60 hours a week to meet a deadline. As long as it's rare, that's probably not unreasonable to most salaried employees. What is unreasonable is working non-stop such that you're literally sleeping on the floor. You can call it entitlement if you want, but I'm happy to be entitled and give a big middle finger to anybody that ever asks me to do that. I could easily find another job within weeks. Why put up with that kind of nonsense if you have the ability not to?

mcv 4y ago

> It's backed by very little legally or culturally. Isn't it? I thought this was exactly what people fought for 100 years ago: to limit the standard work week to 40 hours. The US played a leading role in that fight, and it's incredibly sad to see how Americans have forgotten their history. > Lawyers, doctors, finance professionals, and other high paying, salaried professions include the expectation of more working hours, many times unexpectedly, to get the work done. If you've got a job that depends on unexpected events, then of course there's going to be some irregularity. For most software engineers, that's not really an issue because their work can be planned and won't kill someone if it's not done by tomorrow. System administrators may be an exception in that they have to fix a server right now when there's an issue. But that's a different issue than making overtime standard, and I would expect those admins to be well compensated for their work during off-hours.