7 ms·

The article comes off as slightly condescending; even as I'm 32 and just above the "Young men" threshold (<30) Some of the thing mentioned, such as young women

The article comes off as slightly condescending; even as I'm 32 and just above the "Young men" threshold (<30) Some of the thing mentioned, such as young women not looking for emotional attachment as much might be true, but what about >30 women? My early 20s, online dating era romantic life was miserable; it made me feel completely worthless and that's a sentiment A LOT of young men get from those dating apps. I simply gave up, which was a good choice for a poor, stressed out and anxious engineering student. However, around 28 and forward this drastically changed; and anyone above 30 can probably recall how the dynamic switches around this age group; men get more comfortable about themselves and women realizes that they're competing against people younger than them (which is a group growing every year). If family is a desire then that also add a sense of urgency So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. This is ofc affected by other factors such as culture and demographics, which is closely tied to locations. But people have moved country and cities for all form of opportunities (including mating) so this is a way easier problem to solve, if one prioritizes it. People already get married and have kids later, and have for a while. Only focusing on <30 males seems like a scope very useless to analyze the issue, if not from the negativa mental health consequences this have for young men

geysersam 4y ago
Yes，part of the explanation is probably that women mature a bit earlier than men (in terms of romantic and sexual attractivity).
- igetspam 4y ago
  So 20-30 year old men are too immature for women to be interested in them? But women of the same age aren't? So should we keep you'd men out of the work force and out of the general population because they're too immature to interact with more reasoned beings? Do you really think that?
  - DicIfTEx 4y ago
    I read this whole thing in Tucker Carlson's voice.
    - igetspam 4y ago
      Weird. Tucker Carlson isn't known for thinking women are people. He's more likely to think Incels and Redpills are heros. I can see how it one squints, you could get that as what I'm saying but that's not it. My point is that the "men mature slowly" argument is dumb. There's plenty of evidence to support the idea that women's standards are increasing and men are not improving. Men are alone because we've decided that that the world is the problem, not us and that's unfair.
  - geysersam 4y ago
    No of course I don't think that.
    - igetspam 4y ago
      Then what's your argument?
- tupolef 4y ago
  The fact that women mature earlier is one element, the fact that they seek qualities that men acquire later (stability, resources) is another. But I think that what makes the situation very sad is that our western society has decided to close its eyes to the intrinsic value of women's virtue in the eyes of men. When a young man can't find an interested partner during his younger years and then he is supposed to either fall back on the women over 30 who are left or play on his newly acquired skills as a thirty year old to seduce a woman 10 years younger. In the end, everyone is sad, there are fewer children, society is less virtuous, women change partners throughout their lives, while men wonder if there is any marryable woman left around them.
  - bilqis 4y ago
    What virtues you’re talking about?
  - igetspam 4y ago
    It's like we're not even reading any more... You didn't read the article. You didn't read the thing you wrote that supports the evidence I'm the article. You don't see how you basically just said you were forced to date 20 year olds in your 30s because women your own age are... what? Something bad or something?
bradlys 4y ago
> So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. My personal experience and the experience of men I know is that this is not how it turns out. If you were never attractive before to women, you don't suddenly become attractive to them when you're older. Just because you hit staff and make $500k/yr doesn't mean they want to be with you. Just because you have built up incredible emotional maturity, stability, and intellect doesn't mean someone wants to be with you. End of the day - whether or not they find you physically attractive is the most important thing above all - it's the bare minimum to start an interaction (especially with online but more and more true with in person these days too). This idea that average looking guys just needed to hit 30 before they got to date all the hot 20-somethings is so farfetched and delusional. It's often spoken by men who were rich, physically attractive, and had great social networks but had severe social anxiety and learned later in life how to lessen their social anxiety. Once they did that - wow - suddenly they're having sex with lots of women... Surprise, women were always interested in you, you just never took it further because you had social anxiety. Lots of men don't have social anxiety but are just fuggos. They're not gonna have stuff change when they get older short of doing significant cosmetic surgery. Which, again, is not related to age but more related to getting cosmetic surgery done. You can do that when you're 18 and not wait until you're 30. Look at the tiktok shit that's going on. Women have increasingly deluded sense of what men and women should look like. Social media and casual access to the top physically attractive men has completely distorted how the sexual marketplace is working. It's leaving a lot of people lonely and a lot of people very bitter.
- kingstoned 4y ago
  True. In developed, rich countries with welfare state and feminism, women don't need individual men. Instead, they can rely on government and corporations to be their protector & provider. When ecological pressures are relaxed, sexual selection (i.e. looks) becomes the dominant factor in mate selection. I suggest you read this blog: https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-entire-modern-mating-framework-has-shifted-and-its-evolutionary-consequences/ https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-...
  - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway120487 4y ago
[flagged]
- miamibre 4y ago
  What's wrong with "unattractive" women?

geysersam 4y ago

Yes，part of the explanation is probably that women mature a bit earlier than men (in terms of romantic and sexual attractivity).

igetspam 4y ago
So 20-30 year old men are too immature for women to be interested in them? But women of the same age aren't? So should we keep you'd men out of the work force and out of the general population because they're too immature to interact with more reasoned beings? Do you really think that?
- DicIfTEx 4y ago
  I read this whole thing in Tucker Carlson's voice.
  - igetspam 4y ago
    Weird. Tucker Carlson isn't known for thinking women are people. He's more likely to think Incels and Redpills are heros. I can see how it one squints, you could get that as what I'm saying but that's not it. My point is that the "men mature slowly" argument is dumb. There's plenty of evidence to support the idea that women's standards are increasing and men are not improving. Men are alone because we've decided that that the world is the problem, not us and that's unfair.
- geysersam 4y ago
  No of course I don't think that.
  - igetspam 4y ago
    Then what's your argument?
tupolef 4y ago
The fact that women mature earlier is one element, the fact that they seek qualities that men acquire later (stability, resources) is another. But I think that what makes the situation very sad is that our western society has decided to close its eyes to the intrinsic value of women's virtue in the eyes of men. When a young man can't find an interested partner during his younger years and then he is supposed to either fall back on the women over 30 who are left or play on his newly acquired skills as a thirty year old to seduce a woman 10 years younger. In the end, everyone is sad, there are fewer children, society is less virtuous, women change partners throughout their lives, while men wonder if there is any marryable woman left around them.
- bilqis 4y ago
  What virtues you’re talking about?
- igetspam 4y ago
  It's like we're not even reading any more... You didn't read the article. You didn't read the thing you wrote that supports the evidence I'm the article. You don't see how you basically just said you were forced to date 20 year olds in your 30s because women your own age are... what? Something bad or something?

bradlys 4y ago

> So suddenly (assuming you've put some work in) the dating (and sex) life becomes a balanced game. My personal experience and the experience of men I know is that this is not how it turns out. If you were never attractive before to women, you don't suddenly become attractive to them when you're older. Just because you hit staff and make $500k/yr doesn't mean they want to be with you. Just because you have built up incredible emotional maturity, stability, and intellect doesn't mean someone wants to be with you. End of the day - whether or not they find you physically attractive is the most important thing above all - it's the bare minimum to start an interaction (especially with online but more and more true with in person these days too). This idea that average looking guys just needed to hit 30 before they got to date all the hot 20-somethings is so farfetched and delusional. It's often spoken by men who were rich, physically attractive, and had great social networks but had severe social anxiety and learned later in life how to lessen their social anxiety. Once they did that - wow - suddenly they're having sex with lots of women... Surprise, women were always interested in you, you just never took it further because you had social anxiety. Lots of men don't have social anxiety but are just fuggos. They're not gonna have stuff change when they get older short of doing significant cosmetic surgery. Which, again, is not related to age but more related to getting cosmetic surgery done. You can do that when you're 18 and not wait until you're 30. Look at the tiktok shit that's going on. Women have increasingly deluded sense of what men and women should look like. Social media and casual access to the top physically attractive men has completely distorted how the sexual marketplace is working. It's leaving a lot of people lonely and a lot of people very bitter.

kingstoned 4y ago
True. In developed, rich countries with welfare state and feminism, women don't need individual men. Instead, they can rely on government and corporations to be their protector & provider. When ecological pressures are relaxed, sexual selection (i.e. looks) becomes the dominant factor in mate selection. I suggest you read this blog: https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-entire-modern-mating-framework-has-shifted-and-its-evolutionary-consequences/ https://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/how-the-...
- 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway120487 4y ago

[flagged]

miamibre 4y ago
What's wrong with "unattractive" women?