9 ms·

I tried an alternative way to date – and it worked

38 points by BerislavLopac 4y ago

frozenport 4y ago
reject hundreds of men and still find dozen of good ones : female advantage
xupybd 4y ago
I've never used a dating app. I knew my wife for years before I asked her out. I can't imagine dating strangers from an app. What do you talk about? How do you get to know someone, one on one in a romantic context? Maybe I'm just too old.
- twelve40 4y ago
  > What do you talk about? How do you get to know someone, one on one in a romantic context? Not that hard, you just talk like, you know, humans, and you either hit it off or not. Why is that any harder/different from the awkwardness of asking someone you know (possibly forever) out for the first time? At least here both parties know exactly what they signed up for.
  - seba_dos1 4y ago
    > Not that hard, you just talk like, you know, humans Sounds like you take your skills for granted.
    - twelve40 4y ago
      Sorry, I'm really not claiming any skills. I've had good experience with the apps, my only takeaway is, if you reasonably loosen up and talk normal, and it doesn't work, then we click next, because no amount of pretend will work in the long run.
      - seba_dos1 4y ago
        You absolutely are. "Loosening up and talking normal" in presence of a stranger is a skill. Some people acquired it naturally while growing up, some had to put conscious effort to learn it, some never managed to learn it. For some people it was easy to learn, others find it hard. Some people manage to do it, but find it exhausting. Some people have to play on hard mode all the time due to conditions like RSD. Sounds like it's something that came easy to you - I'm just pointing out that it's not an universal experience.
- rjh29 4y ago
  I agree. I met my current gf online but on social media, so we commented on each other's posts first and built rapport. That made it easy to start a conversation and I didn't really have to compete with anyone. I've had gfs on normal dating apps too but it's harder, you have to be very interesting or attractive, and competition is higher so you're less likely to meet someone really good. For me at least, it doesn't come naturally and incurs a lot of mental effort. It's probably not good for mental health either.
- petodo 4y ago
  > What do you talk about? Same as with everyone else I guess, common hobbies/interests or just small talk and if it seems interesting then just meet in person and check if you click? I've used dating app while living in foreign country not speaking local language with local population very limited English knowledge so dating/IM app is quite obvious choice in that case unless you are after bar girls. Met my wife through dating app. Though I was also quite chatty going to parks on weekends talking to people/girls/female colleagues but end up with wife from dating app, so it was not that I would meet women exclusively only through those apps.
somedude895 4y ago
Another way is to use an app like Hinge instead of Tinder. The pool of people is much smaller, but the app makes it so easy to create an interesting profile with some personality. Plus the fact that you don't simply swipe but are actually incentivized to take a closer look at the profile and respond directly to one of the snippets, which also serves as an instant icebreaker that launches you straight into a conversation. As a guy on Tinder I'd get a match maybe 1/20 swipes – and after being on there for a couple weeks it would go to 1/50 due to the app downgrading me for not being in the top 10% of popular prifiles. On Hinge I get a lot more women responding to my messages and also more requests directly from them. > If a guy can’t set up a decent profile or send a message beyond “Hey”, it doesn’t mean he’s too busy. It means he’s lazy, careless, or not actually invested in dating. This sense of entitlement grinds my gears though. Typically that's what women say who never make the first move.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Funny enough, Hinge is a recentish acquisition of Match.com, as apprently it started to get steam as a contender to Tinder and the other dating apps they also own.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  About 5 years late on this observation Hinge has a leveling program just like Tinder does You didn’t escape, I’m glad you are entertained
  - somedude895 4y ago
    It doesn't really matter, since you can strike up a conversation with anyone and don't depend on them swiping right on you.
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      roses in hinge are the same as super likes on tinder. both apps let you pay to send an optional message in conjunction with those things to higher leveled people (more attractive/popular) than you. the recipient of a rose+message is just as weirded out or skeptical, has a ton of them, and has a ton of likes from people at their level. which is the reason their level is high at all. so you're just in their long list of matches, not standing out at all. and outside of your own initiative, in both leveling systems, higher leveled / attractive people never see your profile at all to make a decision for or against you. in all dating applications, many people have their notifications turned off, and actually forget to look. if you have another way to meet people, consider more of that. its healthier mentally. the leveling system attempts to mimic the non-dating app attraction world, but is still hampered by how few physical inputs a dating app provides about a potential partner, compared to in-person selection.
JesusLovesEwe 4y ago
[flagged]
jwestbury 4y ago
https://archive.ph/R0hZS https://archive.ph/R0hZS
yieldcrv 4y ago
My friend has an adaptation for women like this, and many other women too. She was intrigued by thoughtful messages, and a lower volume of them My friend added paragraphs of text to his phones autocorrect like “a” could be autocorrected to an entire thoughtful and whimsical intro Its an art
erklik 4y ago
> One: present yourself exactly as you are. In fact, the fewer men you appeal to, the better. Two: be picky. Give almost no one a chance. Isn't this literally what already occurs? From the other side, it seems like this is exactly how most women are doing it? I don't see a lot of my female friends going on dates with every guy they match with (which is usually >200 so pretty hard to date 200 people), so they're rather picky which makes sense. Although, the profile thing is lacking, it's usually just a few photos. > If a guy can’t set up a decent profile or send a message beyond “Hey”, it doesn’t mean he’s too busy. It means he’s lazy, careless, or not actually invested in dating. I wonder if she's ever actually sent a message to someone else. This entitlement of "entertain me peasant" is one of the reasons why I deleted these apps.
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  I never sent a "hey" or wink in my life. This is not some unreasonable bar. Every time I see my female friends inboxes I gag all over agaon. Dudes are pathetic.
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    Men send "Hey" to weed the bots and fake profiles. It's that simple And even then, "hey" is a correct way of starting a conversation. Sure it can be improved, using something about their profile works better. Though to be honest, women who start with the "entertain me" mentality, that's a good hint that she's not going to work out.
    - Brian_K_White 4y ago
      The fact that anyone tries to call this "entertain me" proves my point. There are such women of course, but this tiny trivial level of effort and sincerity is not that. This is exactly what I mean by pathetic.
    - petodo 4y ago
      Wouldnt be easier just send message "Hi, I'm sending this message to check whether this profile is bot or fake profile, if it ain't please respond that you are INSERT FUNNY REMARK, thanks." if you really use this message for such purpose and then you can just copypaste it.
pizza234 4y ago
This is the perspective of a woman. Personal experience as a man: > present yourself exactly as you are > be picky with this approach, I'd get exactly zero attractions, to put it in her terms, which doesn't reflect my real world dynamics.
- jeltz 4y ago
  I am just an average looking short scrawny guy and I would not say it is that hard to get matches for me on Tinder. Some even write to me first. I would say the first advice is very true (within reason) even for men but that since there are fewer women on dating apps than men we cannot afford to be as picky. I feel presenting yourself as you are (but slightly improved version) is just sound advice because you do not want to waste your time anyway with people who are not attracted to you.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    > I am just an average looking short scrawny guy Anytime this gets posted along with "and I get lots of matches" - it is almost universal that the person is in-fact not an average looking guy. Post pics and numbers of matches/week - you're very unlikely to be average looking if you claim to do well. The overwhelming amount of men who post on dating profile advice subreddits like tinder, hinge, etc. and are average looking men with reasonable profiles who get 0 matches proves your point to not be a reasonable expectation.
- pixelpoet 4y ago
  That's what I do and I'm single for 3-4-5 years between (long term) relationships, for a grand total of 5 at nearly 40. A lot of people have zero concept of how it is out there for us not-first-pick guys in online dating... and I guess it could be worse (just in a new relationship now), but yeah, it's pretty grim.
- mcv 4y ago
  It worked fine for me. I certainly don't want to date every woman, so I'm picky, and of course I present myself as I am. Of course if you're somehow an awful person, that is of course something to improve, and not something to hide.
yulaow 4y ago
Looking at aggregated stats like those on tinderinsight this is not an alternative way to date but exactly what most women do on dating apps and it's also an obvious strategy as soon as you realize that, as a woman, you have far more men competing for you (in my nation 91% of tinder users are men [0]) and most of them get quite desperate quite fast If the situation was reversed we men would behave the same most probably [0] https://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/05/online-dating-trends-men-outnumber-women-on-tinder-by-9-to-1-while-grinder-wins-for-age-diversity/ https://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/05/online-dating-trend...
- disembiggen 4y ago
  can confirm, went from being a 5/10 guy to a 5/10 trans woman, attitude changes real fast when you go from 0 matches to too many matches (and loads of guys aren't even interested in trans women!) The disparity also makes tinder basically useless since it's clear that many guys are just swiping right on everyone, sure in their head they do believe they'll take what they can get, but if they're not doing any filtering then the fundamental contract of the swipe system is broken, that both of you are actively and on consideration interested in one another.
postsantum 4y ago
This is just an advertisement of her "consulting". As for the "innovation", that reminds me of "Ask HN: I’m 41 and still unmarried – what should I do?" where OP went on dates with 120 men and rejected every single one
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  I didn’t believe that was real so I searched for it. Very sad. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992
- bruce343434 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 721 comments
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    The top comment there is very on point
    - mcv 4y ago
      Absolutely. There's definitely a risk in being too picky. You should be somewhat picky; you don't want to date just anyone, do you? But you also need to understand that nobody is perfect. As with job candidates, meeting 50% of the requirements is pretty good. The important part is that they've got enough to interest you, and that their annoyances (everybody has some) is stuff you can tolerate. Of course there are red flags that are immediate dealbreakers; don't tolerate those. But be prepared to find someone who may be completely different from what you may once have dreamt about, but who may still be right for you.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > As with job candidates, meeting 50% of the requirements is pretty good. If a candidate (for anything) meeting 50% of requirements is “pretty good”, whoever created the list of requirements does not understand the concept of requirements.
PedroBatista 4y ago
To be fair, pretty much every “alternative way to date” would work for 90% of women due to “market dynamics”. Change the objective to long term and start a family for life then those numbers would plummet to low single digits. That’s my guess, but this is always a charged topic so I should have stayed out of it in the first place.
IAmNotAFix 4y ago
TL;DR: "There’s no shortage of men who want to date you"
fleddr 4y ago
Product idea: AI bot that turns low effort male chat messages into profound, caring and thoughtful conversation. The Pro edition comes with an in-ear aid, should it come to a real date. To be countered with Fembot AI Plus, which converts profile fiction into real world filters. "I'm looking for a deep emotional connection" -> "Find me the hottest guy in a 10 mile radius that has no criminal record or hobbies".
popol12 4y ago
I really thought this article would be about "date" like in dd/mm/yyyy :')
michaelt 4y ago
I'd encourage anyone who wants to have an informed opinion on this stuff to try creating an account with the opposite gender on a dating website. I did this about a decade ago (before the rise of tinder and suchlike) and the difference in experience for men and women is huge. I made an extremely basic female profile, with a photo that didn't even show a face and barely any other details - and I was immediately buried in a completely unmanagable landslide of messages. And none of them were from people who'd read the profile and considered details like personality, interests, values or compatibility - I hadn't provided anything! These people must have been purely playing a numbers game, copy-pasting the same message to dozens of women a day with barely a glance at their profile. That gave me an appreciation for the fact that women on these website have to get through their messages fast and even if my messages were nuggets of gold, they were buried in a dung pile of other messages.
- mcv 4y ago
  My advice to women on such sites is to just ignore the flood of messages (would be nice if you could auto-delete any message from someone you haven't messaged before), and instead just look for interesting messages and only talk to men where you've taken the first step. Only men with an interesting profile. Spending any attention at all on that endless flood on low-effort messages would mean you're never going to find time to actually find and date someone.
xlii 4y ago
Passive strategy works well when men are young and/or horny. When horny phase wears off the same passiveness is a reason why marriages end. >In the digital dating sphere, “burning the haystack” means obliterating 99 per cent of the dating field immediately so that you’re able to see the 1 per cent that might be right for you (...) > There’s no shortage of men who want to date you, (...) the good ones are out there, though, and this method makes them more findable. So, soft way of saying that 99% of men aren't "good". I think it's sexism and it irritates me.
- Slow_Dog 4y ago
  It's made clear from the context that "good" is "a good match". There's nothing wrong with most of those other men, but they're not going to be people that she will want to spend the rest of her life with.
  - xlii 4y ago
    Nitpicking - most of the people spend their lives with ~1-3e-10 of % of world's population, but it's not about statistical correctness. If I'd say that 99% women aren't good for me, that'd be still technically true, but still something that'd be perceived in a negative way. Is there malicious intent? Probably not, but I still think this statement is sexist against men due to generalization.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > So, soft way of saying that 99% of men aren't "good". No, its a way of saying 99% of people on dating platforms aren’t right for any given potential partner.
LtWorf 4y ago
I prefer picky rather than: "This guy is disabled, so I can't reject him or I would be a bad person… I will go out with him but act terribly, so that he will reject me instead, leaving my status as a good person intact." Yes this has happened to me a few times. Despite my opening usually was something like "I've got this disability, if you're uncomfortable with that please just unmatch me right away".
- petodo 4y ago
  So you say I should pretend I am disabled and they just found miracle cure prior the date?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
globular-toast 4y ago
What does "it worked" mean? Does it mean she has now finished "dating" because she found "the one"? Does it mean she now has more and/or better sex? Or maybe she has been able to extract more value (time/money) from men? Or is simply receiving "high quality" messages the goal? Any dating advice seems utterly useless unless the goal is actually defined. A lot of people on online dating platforms seem to be "lifestyle daters". It's very similar to lifestyle dieters: people who are eternally "on a diet" but never lose weight or become happy with their bodies. There's nothing wrong with it, but I think for most people online dating is a means to an end and not something they want to keep doing for its own sake.
Version467 4y ago
The contents of this article aren't too interesting, but the topic is. People using dating apps like Tinder optimise for matching profile attributes. The only information we have to filter people is their profiles. And we assume that a greater number of shared interests/values/etc. will make for a better partner. But that's not necessarily true. I actually find it quite unlikely to be true. There might be some correlation, but it can't be very strong. If it were, than all the long term happy couples would consist of basically identical people. But that's clearly not the case. I suspect that most relationships fail not because of true incompatibilities, but because the huge increase of the dating pool size has made us believe that it's about finding the right match, instead of making it. And in that process we have lost some critical relationship skills that are needed to make a partnership work. That's very unfortunate, but at the same time an incredibly helpful realisation.
hoseja 4y ago
(as a woman)
disembiggen 4y ago
this comment section is a little grim, I guess it's a bit expected that the audience for hacker news skews nerdy, single and male, but it feels worth saying that you're still likely all fairly attractive guys! hang on to a good attitude, care deeply about the things you care about, get a good barber and you'll be out of the dating abyss soon!
SavageBeast 4y ago
US based male here written from the perspective of Austin, TX. Your mileage will of course vary. Not being a user of Tinder et al. I can't say I have a lot of experience first hand but what I do know is a lot of women who are constantly swiping and such (I have a solid group of "hot" female friends to study - Im not sure this is a good thing as I've learned some pretty terrifying stuff about dating from them). They admit they are mainly there for attention and validation and that the whole thing has very little do with dating. In fact, its more about a free meal at a nice place. Literally every one of them has a side-guy she's having sex with on the semi-regular anyhow and he's not paying for shit. I'm not making this up - this is what they tell me they use the apps for. When they see pictures of some sexually appealing guy or even better one flaunting money with cars and what not they get interested fast. So, post sexy shirtless pics of you and your gym body in front of your Lambo. Extra points for backwards hat - the bigger the bill on the hat the better apparently. Better yet post sexy shirtless pics of you and your boat. Happen to find yourself in a private aircraft of some sort - POST THAT PIC! If you do these things you can write a profile about being sociopathic sex offender complete with misspellings and idiotic grammar and get away with it - nobody is reading it anyhow. The reward is more often than not, earning the right to meet a girl at the hot, exclusive, trendy and EXPENSIVE new place and buy them a nice evening. Afterwards they frequently - not always mind you - end up over at my place telling me about the stupid guy they went on a date with and ditched at 10PM. This isn't abstract - this is absolutely real. When I want to eat I buy groceries, when girls want to eat they go on dates. I'm 100% absolutely not kidding. Personally - I never got into The Apps thing. I have guy friends who do it quite well and believe me they're not looking for a wife and the girls they bring around are most certainly not wives in waiting. These guys are living proof you can in fact get good at this and contrary to what you might think, these guys aren't exactly Ukrainian Underwear Models either. Quite the opposite but with their Rolexs and Real Estate Portfolios, that stuff isn't important anyhow. Status trumps money. Money trumps sex appeal. Sex appeal will still get you in the door but well behind the status and money guys. What I really love personally about the shit show that is pervasive app based dating is simple - I can now walk up to a girl at a show, a nice venue, where ever there are girls having fun and say "Hello" while looking them in the eye and introducing myself. Nobody does this anymore and it seems to blow their minds by the look on their faces when a real guy in the real world bothers to walk straight up to them and start telling them silly jokes. It seems to convey the message of "I dare you to reject me, in fact thats why I bothered to walk over here and chat you up in the first place - this kind of social jeopardy is inconsequential and entertaining to me. I don't care because I have big brass balls and you don't scare me one bit - besides theres tons of girls here and you're not in a position to negotiate with me as I have plenty of options you can see right now with a brief look around the room here". This seems to convey the understanding that Im a High Value Male and more often than not it works. At worst you get a dead fish handshake from a girl with no social skills. In the best case you actually make a new friend or find a gaggle of girls to spend the day with and take things from there. I encourage anyone who wants to flip the script to give this a try. Im here to tell you that the old school game of collecting phone numbers from in person interactions still works as well or better than it ever did. Apps are for attention seeking women and men who seek to industrialize the process of sourcing girls for the purpose of sex. Personal connection in the real world is a powerful thing and allows you to leverage advantages The Apps just don't offer. Simply be attractive to the demographic you're going after (if you're seeking Goth Girls be a Goth Guy etc), have some witty things to say and don't be a creep. Get some phone numbers. Wait a few days and follow up with some texts etc. PROPOSE A DATE AND MAKE THE ASK. It wont always work of course but it puts a lot of the choice making process back in your hands. No matter how you approach it, it's always going to be a difficult grind but at least this way you get to have a little fun in the process and sharpen your own social skills. EDIT: Seems this post has been flagged? Seems like a perfectly valid article to me - at least considering the source. Maybe someone didn't like what the had to say as it hit a little too close to home me thinks.
smohare 4y ago
[dead]
bradlys 4y ago
Shock. Another article written about online dating by a woman that doesn’t reflect how it works for men at all.

38 points by BerislavLopac 4y ago

reject hundreds of men and still find dozen of good ones : female advantage

I've never used a dating app. I knew my wife for years before I asked her out. I can't imagine dating strangers from an app. What do you talk about? How do you get to know someone, one on one in a romantic context? Maybe I'm just too old.

twelve40 4y ago
> What do you talk about? How do you get to know someone, one on one in a romantic context? Not that hard, you just talk like, you know, humans, and you either hit it off or not. Why is that any harder/different from the awkwardness of asking someone you know (possibly forever) out for the first time? At least here both parties know exactly what they signed up for.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  > Not that hard, you just talk like, you know, humans Sounds like you take your skills for granted.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    Sorry, I'm really not claiming any skills. I've had good experience with the apps, my only takeaway is, if you reasonably loosen up and talk normal, and it doesn't work, then we click next, because no amount of pretend will work in the long run.
    - seba_dos1 4y ago
      You absolutely are. "Loosening up and talking normal" in presence of a stranger is a skill. Some people acquired it naturally while growing up, some had to put conscious effort to learn it, some never managed to learn it. For some people it was easy to learn, others find it hard. Some people manage to do it, but find it exhausting. Some people have to play on hard mode all the time due to conditions like RSD. Sounds like it's something that came easy to you - I'm just pointing out that it's not an universal experience.
rjh29 4y ago
I agree. I met my current gf online but on social media, so we commented on each other's posts first and built rapport. That made it easy to start a conversation and I didn't really have to compete with anyone. I've had gfs on normal dating apps too but it's harder, you have to be very interesting or attractive, and competition is higher so you're less likely to meet someone really good. For me at least, it doesn't come naturally and incurs a lot of mental effort. It's probably not good for mental health either.
petodo 4y ago
> What do you talk about? Same as with everyone else I guess, common hobbies/interests or just small talk and if it seems interesting then just meet in person and check if you click? I've used dating app while living in foreign country not speaking local language with local population very limited English knowledge so dating/IM app is quite obvious choice in that case unless you are after bar girls. Met my wife through dating app. Though I was also quite chatty going to parks on weekends talking to people/girls/female colleagues but end up with wife from dating app, so it was not that I would meet women exclusively only through those apps.

somedude895 4y ago

Another way is to use an app like Hinge instead of Tinder. The pool of people is much smaller, but the app makes it so easy to create an interesting profile with some personality. Plus the fact that you don't simply swipe but are actually incentivized to take a closer look at the profile and respond directly to one of the snippets, which also serves as an instant icebreaker that launches you straight into a conversation. As a guy on Tinder I'd get a match maybe 1/20 swipes – and after being on there for a couple weeks it would go to 1/50 due to the app downgrading me for not being in the top 10% of popular prifiles. On Hinge I get a lot more women responding to my messages and also more requests directly from them. > If a guy can’t set up a decent profile or send a message beyond “Hey”, it doesn’t mean he’s too busy. It means he’s lazy, careless, or not actually invested in dating. This sense of entitlement grinds my gears though. Typically that's what women say who never make the first move.

makeitdouble 4y ago
Funny enough, Hinge is a recentish acquisition of Match.com, as apprently it started to get steam as a contender to Tinder and the other dating apps they also own.
yieldcrv 4y ago
About 5 years late on this observation Hinge has a leveling program just like Tinder does You didn’t escape, I’m glad you are entertained
- somedude895 4y ago
  It doesn't really matter, since you can strike up a conversation with anyone and don't depend on them swiping right on you.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    roses in hinge are the same as super likes on tinder. both apps let you pay to send an optional message in conjunction with those things to higher leveled people (more attractive/popular) than you. the recipient of a rose+message is just as weirded out or skeptical, has a ton of them, and has a ton of likes from people at their level. which is the reason their level is high at all. so you're just in their long list of matches, not standing out at all. and outside of your own initiative, in both leveling systems, higher leveled / attractive people never see your profile at all to make a decision for or against you. in all dating applications, many people have their notifications turned off, and actually forget to look. if you have another way to meet people, consider more of that. its healthier mentally. the leveling system attempts to mimic the non-dating app attraction world, but is still hampered by how few physical inputs a dating app provides about a potential partner, compared to in-person selection.

JesusLovesEwe 4y ago

[flagged]

jwestbury 4y ago

https://archive.ph/R0hZS https://archive.ph/R0hZS

yieldcrv 4y ago

My friend has an adaptation for women like this, and many other women too. She was intrigued by thoughtful messages, and a lower volume of them My friend added paragraphs of text to his phones autocorrect like “a” could be autocorrected to an entire thoughtful and whimsical intro Its an art

erklik 4y ago

> One: present yourself exactly as you are. In fact, the fewer men you appeal to, the better. Two: be picky. Give almost no one a chance. Isn't this literally what already occurs? From the other side, it seems like this is exactly how most women are doing it? I don't see a lot of my female friends going on dates with every guy they match with (which is usually >200 so pretty hard to date 200 people), so they're rather picky which makes sense. Although, the profile thing is lacking, it's usually just a few photos. > If a guy can’t set up a decent profile or send a message beyond “Hey”, it doesn’t mean he’s too busy. It means he’s lazy, careless, or not actually invested in dating. I wonder if she's ever actually sent a message to someone else. This entitlement of "entertain me peasant" is one of the reasons why I deleted these apps.

Brian_K_White 4y ago
I never sent a "hey" or wink in my life. This is not some unreasonable bar. Every time I see my female friends inboxes I gag all over agaon. Dudes are pathetic.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Men send "Hey" to weed the bots and fake profiles. It's that simple And even then, "hey" is a correct way of starting a conversation. Sure it can be improved, using something about their profile works better. Though to be honest, women who start with the "entertain me" mentality, that's a good hint that she's not going to work out.
  - Brian_K_White 4y ago
    The fact that anyone tries to call this "entertain me" proves my point. There are such women of course, but this tiny trivial level of effort and sincerity is not that. This is exactly what I mean by pathetic.
  - petodo 4y ago
    Wouldnt be easier just send message "Hi, I'm sending this message to check whether this profile is bot or fake profile, if it ain't please respond that you are INSERT FUNNY REMARK, thanks." if you really use this message for such purpose and then you can just copypaste it.

pizza234 4y ago

This is the perspective of a woman. Personal experience as a man: > present yourself exactly as you are > be picky with this approach, I'd get exactly zero attractions, to put it in her terms, which doesn't reflect my real world dynamics.

jeltz 4y ago
I am just an average looking short scrawny guy and I would not say it is that hard to get matches for me on Tinder. Some even write to me first. I would say the first advice is very true (within reason) even for men but that since there are fewer women on dating apps than men we cannot afford to be as picky. I feel presenting yourself as you are (but slightly improved version) is just sound advice because you do not want to waste your time anyway with people who are not attracted to you.
- bradlys 4y ago
  > I am just an average looking short scrawny guy Anytime this gets posted along with "and I get lots of matches" - it is almost universal that the person is in-fact not an average looking guy. Post pics and numbers of matches/week - you're very unlikely to be average looking if you claim to do well. The overwhelming amount of men who post on dating profile advice subreddits like tinder, hinge, etc. and are average looking men with reasonable profiles who get 0 matches proves your point to not be a reasonable expectation.
pixelpoet 4y ago
That's what I do and I'm single for 3-4-5 years between (long term) relationships, for a grand total of 5 at nearly 40. A lot of people have zero concept of how it is out there for us not-first-pick guys in online dating... and I guess it could be worse (just in a new relationship now), but yeah, it's pretty grim.
mcv 4y ago
It worked fine for me. I certainly don't want to date every woman, so I'm picky, and of course I present myself as I am. Of course if you're somehow an awful person, that is of course something to improve, and not something to hide.

yulaow 4y ago

Looking at aggregated stats like those on tinderinsight this is not an alternative way to date but exactly what most women do on dating apps and it's also an obvious strategy as soon as you realize that, as a woman, you have far more men competing for you (in my nation 91% of tinder users are men [0]) and most of them get quite desperate quite fast If the situation was reversed we men would behave the same most probably [0] https://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/05/online-dating-trends-men-outnumber-women-on-tinder-by-9-to-1-while-grinder-wins-for-age-diversity/ https://www.netimperative.com/2019/04/05/online-dating-trend...

disembiggen 4y ago
can confirm, went from being a 5/10 guy to a 5/10 trans woman, attitude changes real fast when you go from 0 matches to too many matches (and loads of guys aren't even interested in trans women!) The disparity also makes tinder basically useless since it's clear that many guys are just swiping right on everyone, sure in their head they do believe they'll take what they can get, but if they're not doing any filtering then the fundamental contract of the swipe system is broken, that both of you are actively and on consideration interested in one another.

postsantum 4y ago

This is just an advertisement of her "consulting". As for the "innovation", that reminds me of "Ask HN: I’m 41 and still unmarried – what should I do?" where OP went on dates with 120 men and rejected every single one

barry-cotter 4y ago
I didn’t believe that was real so I searched for it. Very sad. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992
bruce343434 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31961992 721 comments
- raverbashing 4y ago
  The top comment there is very on point
  - mcv 4y ago
    Absolutely. There's definitely a risk in being too picky. You should be somewhat picky; you don't want to date just anyone, do you? But you also need to understand that nobody is perfect. As with job candidates, meeting 50% of the requirements is pretty good. The important part is that they've got enough to interest you, and that their annoyances (everybody has some) is stuff you can tolerate. Of course there are red flags that are immediate dealbreakers; don't tolerate those. But be prepared to find someone who may be completely different from what you may once have dreamt about, but who may still be right for you.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > As with job candidates, meeting 50% of the requirements is pretty good. If a candidate (for anything) meeting 50% of requirements is “pretty good”, whoever created the list of requirements does not understand the concept of requirements.

PedroBatista 4y ago

To be fair, pretty much every “alternative way to date” would work for 90% of women due to “market dynamics”. Change the objective to long term and start a family for life then those numbers would plummet to low single digits. That’s my guess, but this is always a charged topic so I should have stayed out of it in the first place.

IAmNotAFix 4y ago

TL;DR: "There’s no shortage of men who want to date you"

fleddr 4y ago

Product idea: AI bot that turns low effort male chat messages into profound, caring and thoughtful conversation. The Pro edition comes with an in-ear aid, should it come to a real date. To be countered with Fembot AI Plus, which converts profile fiction into real world filters. "I'm looking for a deep emotional connection" -> "Find me the hottest guy in a 10 mile radius that has no criminal record or hobbies".

popol12 4y ago

I really thought this article would be about "date" like in dd/mm/yyyy :')

michaelt 4y ago

I'd encourage anyone who wants to have an informed opinion on this stuff to try creating an account with the opposite gender on a dating website. I did this about a decade ago (before the rise of tinder and suchlike) and the difference in experience for men and women is huge. I made an extremely basic female profile, with a photo that didn't even show a face and barely any other details - and I was immediately buried in a completely unmanagable landslide of messages. And none of them were from people who'd read the profile and considered details like personality, interests, values or compatibility - I hadn't provided anything! These people must have been purely playing a numbers game, copy-pasting the same message to dozens of women a day with barely a glance at their profile. That gave me an appreciation for the fact that women on these website have to get through their messages fast and even if my messages were nuggets of gold, they were buried in a dung pile of other messages.

mcv 4y ago
My advice to women on such sites is to just ignore the flood of messages (would be nice if you could auto-delete any message from someone you haven't messaged before), and instead just look for interesting messages and only talk to men where you've taken the first step. Only men with an interesting profile. Spending any attention at all on that endless flood on low-effort messages would mean you're never going to find time to actually find and date someone.

xlii 4y ago

Passive strategy works well when men are young and/or horny. When horny phase wears off the same passiveness is a reason why marriages end. >In the digital dating sphere, “burning the haystack” means obliterating 99 per cent of the dating field immediately so that you’re able to see the 1 per cent that might be right for you (...) > There’s no shortage of men who want to date you, (...) the good ones are out there, though, and this method makes them more findable. So, soft way of saying that 99% of men aren't "good". I think it's sexism and it irritates me.

Slow_Dog 4y ago
It's made clear from the context that "good" is "a good match". There's nothing wrong with most of those other men, but they're not going to be people that she will want to spend the rest of her life with.
- xlii 4y ago
  Nitpicking - most of the people spend their lives with ~1-3e-10 of % of world's population, but it's not about statistical correctness. If I'd say that 99% women aren't good for me, that'd be still technically true, but still something that'd be perceived in a negative way. Is there malicious intent? Probably not, but I still think this statement is sexist against men due to generalization.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> So, soft way of saying that 99% of men aren't "good". No, its a way of saying 99% of people on dating platforms aren’t right for any given potential partner.

LtWorf 4y ago

I prefer picky rather than: "This guy is disabled, so I can't reject him or I would be a bad person… I will go out with him but act terribly, so that he will reject me instead, leaving my status as a good person intact." Yes this has happened to me a few times. Despite my opening usually was something like "I've got this disability, if you're uncomfortable with that please just unmatch me right away".

petodo 4y ago
So you say I should pretend I am disabled and they just found miracle cure prior the date?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

globular-toast 4y ago

What does "it worked" mean? Does it mean she has now finished "dating" because she found "the one"? Does it mean she now has more and/or better sex? Or maybe she has been able to extract more value (time/money) from men? Or is simply receiving "high quality" messages the goal? Any dating advice seems utterly useless unless the goal is actually defined. A lot of people on online dating platforms seem to be "lifestyle daters". It's very similar to lifestyle dieters: people who are eternally "on a diet" but never lose weight or become happy with their bodies. There's nothing wrong with it, but I think for most people online dating is a means to an end and not something they want to keep doing for its own sake.

Version467 4y ago

The contents of this article aren't too interesting, but the topic is. People using dating apps like Tinder optimise for matching profile attributes. The only information we have to filter people is their profiles. And we assume that a greater number of shared interests/values/etc. will make for a better partner. But that's not necessarily true. I actually find it quite unlikely to be true. There might be some correlation, but it can't be very strong. If it were, than all the long term happy couples would consist of basically identical people. But that's clearly not the case. I suspect that most relationships fail not because of true incompatibilities, but because the huge increase of the dating pool size has made us believe that it's about finding the right match, instead of making it. And in that process we have lost some critical relationship skills that are needed to make a partnership work. That's very unfortunate, but at the same time an incredibly helpful realisation.

hoseja 4y ago

(as a woman)

disembiggen 4y ago

this comment section is a little grim, I guess it's a bit expected that the audience for hacker news skews nerdy, single and male, but it feels worth saying that you're still likely all fairly attractive guys! hang on to a good attitude, care deeply about the things you care about, get a good barber and you'll be out of the dating abyss soon!

SavageBeast 4y ago

US based male here written from the perspective of Austin, TX. Your mileage will of course vary. Not being a user of Tinder et al. I can't say I have a lot of experience first hand but what I do know is a lot of women who are constantly swiping and such (I have a solid group of "hot" female friends to study - Im not sure this is a good thing as I've learned some pretty terrifying stuff about dating from them). They admit they are mainly there for attention and validation and that the whole thing has very little do with dating. In fact, its more about a free meal at a nice place. Literally every one of them has a side-guy she's having sex with on the semi-regular anyhow and he's not paying for shit. I'm not making this up - this is what they tell me they use the apps for. When they see pictures of some sexually appealing guy or even better one flaunting money with cars and what not they get interested fast. So, post sexy shirtless pics of you and your gym body in front of your Lambo. Extra points for backwards hat - the bigger the bill on the hat the better apparently. Better yet post sexy shirtless pics of you and your boat. Happen to find yourself in a private aircraft of some sort - POST THAT PIC! If you do these things you can write a profile about being sociopathic sex offender complete with misspellings and idiotic grammar and get away with it - nobody is reading it anyhow. The reward is more often than not, earning the right to meet a girl at the hot, exclusive, trendy and EXPENSIVE new place and buy them a nice evening. Afterwards they frequently - not always mind you - end up over at my place telling me about the stupid guy they went on a date with and ditched at 10PM. This isn't abstract - this is absolutely real. When I want to eat I buy groceries, when girls want to eat they go on dates. I'm 100% absolutely not kidding. Personally - I never got into The Apps thing. I have guy friends who do it quite well and believe me they're not looking for a wife and the girls they bring around are most certainly not wives in waiting. These guys are living proof you can in fact get good at this and contrary to what you might think, these guys aren't exactly Ukrainian Underwear Models either. Quite the opposite but with their Rolexs and Real Estate Portfolios, that stuff isn't important anyhow. Status trumps money. Money trumps sex appeal. Sex appeal will still get you in the door but well behind the status and money guys. What I really love personally about the shit show that is pervasive app based dating is simple - I can now walk up to a girl at a show, a nice venue, where ever there are girls having fun and say "Hello" while looking them in the eye and introducing myself. Nobody does this anymore and it seems to blow their minds by the look on their faces when a real guy in the real world bothers to walk straight up to them and start telling them silly jokes. It seems to convey the message of "I dare you to reject me, in fact thats why I bothered to walk over here and chat you up in the first place - this kind of social jeopardy is inconsequential and entertaining to me. I don't care because I have big brass balls and you don't scare me one bit - besides theres tons of girls here and you're not in a position to negotiate with me as I have plenty of options you can see right now with a brief look around the room here". This seems to convey the understanding that Im a High Value Male and more often than not it works. At worst you get a dead fish handshake from a girl with no social skills. In the best case you actually make a new friend or find a gaggle of girls to spend the day with and take things from there. I encourage anyone who wants to flip the script to give this a try. Im here to tell you that the old school game of collecting phone numbers from in person interactions still works as well or better than it ever did. Apps are for attention seeking women and men who seek to industrialize the process of sourcing girls for the purpose of sex. Personal connection in the real world is a powerful thing and allows you to leverage advantages The Apps just don't offer. Simply be attractive to the demographic you're going after (if you're seeking Goth Girls be a Goth Guy etc), have some witty things to say and don't be a creep. Get some phone numbers. Wait a few days and follow up with some texts etc. PROPOSE A DATE AND MAKE THE ASK. It wont always work of course but it puts a lot of the choice making process back in your hands. No matter how you approach it, it's always going to be a difficult grind but at least this way you get to have a little fun in the process and sharpen your own social skills. EDIT: Seems this post has been flagged? Seems like a perfectly valid article to me - at least considering the source. Maybe someone didn't like what the had to say as it hit a little too close to home me thinks.

smohare 4y ago

[dead]

bradlys 4y ago

Shock. Another article written about online dating by a woman that doesn’t reflect how it works for men at all.