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This is just another US presidential election. I agree that "historic" is a terribly over-used adjective in this context, but I find it hard to believe you cou

by mhartl 18y ago

This is just another US presidential election. I agree that "historic" is a terribly over-used adjective in this context, but I find it hard to believe you could live in (and love) this country without feeling that this election is more "historic" than most.

ivankirigin 18y ago
You find it hard to believe he loves this country because of an opinion on a subjective matter of semantics? Please... I'll give you a one liner why this election might not be 'historic': neither likely victor has any intention of making the federal enterprise smaller than $3T. But don't mind us libertarians in the corner :)
- mhartl 18y ago
  (a) It's not clear that he's an American. In fact I rather suspect he's not. In any case, and with my melodramatic invocation of "love" notwithstanding, it's perverse not to recognize that this is no ordinary election, regardless of which candidate you favor. (b) I didn't say anything about my views on the election, just that I think it's historic. That goes even for libertarians; though I agree spending will be out of control no matter who wins, the president affects much more than the Federal budget. And an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis with the country's first black presidential candidate is historic no matter how you slice it. (c) I'm an anarcho-capitalist (terrible term) in the David Friedman tradition. Put that in your libertarian pipe and smoke it. ;-)
  - anamax 18y ago
    > (a) It's not clear that he's an American. In fact I rather suspect he's not. Me? Based on what? > In any case, and with my melodramatic invocation of "love" notwithstanding, it's perverse not to recognize that this is no ordinary election, regardless of which candidate you favor. Perverse? Every presidential election involves some "leg tingling", so what makes this one so different? > And an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis World wars were bigger - were all those elections "historic"?. The Civil War was in the US - was 1864 "historic"? > with the country's first black presidential candidate is historic no matter how you slice it. Racist :-) (Didn't you get the memo? Any mention of race is an attack on "The One".)
    - mhartl 18y ago
      Me? Based on what? I think it was the repetition of "US ... election" that gave me that impression, and in particular the inclusion of "US" in the construction. As a US native, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me to include that modifier, so I guessed that you might not be American. what makes this one so different? Well, "an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis with the country's first black presidential candidate", for starters. Not to mention arguably America's lowest standing in the world since WWII. I remember seven elections and have voted in four, and (despite the "historic" claims four years ago) this one feels bigger than any of them.
      - anamax 18y ago
        > As a US native, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me to include that modifier, so I guessed that you might not be American. Never considered the possibility that an American might internationalize? > I remember seven elections and have voted in four Newbie :-) (The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" comes to mind during this election.) How about the possibility that you're trying to relive when elections were new (to you)? > Not to mention arguably America's lowest standing in the world since WWII. Still irrelevant. When other countries need something, other countries forget "standing". When America needs something, they happily sell or don't have the capability. (Yes, Australia and some of the Euro contries have some amazing troops. However, they don't have many of them and they can't transport them.) As someone once said in a slightly different context, if you want a friend, get a dog. Countries act out of perceived self-interest not friendship, standing, etc. (Disagree? Provide examples where "friendship" trumped perceived self-interest.) If you insist on listening to Monday morning quarterbacks, shouldn't you at least pick ones whose predictions are reasonably accurate?
  - ivankirigin 18y ago
    "I find it hard to believe you could live in (and love) this country without feeling..." I do think this election is important. I also think it's reasonable to think it doesn't matter. My comment was about your reaction, not the premise :)

by mhartl 18y ago

ivankirigin 18y ago

You find it hard to believe he loves this country because of an opinion on a subjective matter of semantics? Please... I'll give you a one liner why this election might not be 'historic': neither likely victor has any intention of making the federal enterprise smaller than $3T. But don't mind us libertarians in the corner :)

mhartl 18y ago
(a) It's not clear that he's an American. In fact I rather suspect he's not. In any case, and with my melodramatic invocation of "love" notwithstanding, it's perverse not to recognize that this is no ordinary election, regardless of which candidate you favor. (b) I didn't say anything about my views on the election, just that I think it's historic. That goes even for libertarians; though I agree spending will be out of control no matter who wins, the president affects much more than the Federal budget. And an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis with the country's first black presidential candidate is historic no matter how you slice it. (c) I'm an anarcho-capitalist (terrible term) in the David Friedman tradition. Put that in your libertarian pipe and smoke it. ;-)
- anamax 18y ago
  > (a) It's not clear that he's an American. In fact I rather suspect he's not. Me? Based on what? > In any case, and with my melodramatic invocation of "love" notwithstanding, it's perverse not to recognize that this is no ordinary election, regardless of which candidate you favor. Perverse? Every presidential election involves some "leg tingling", so what makes this one so different? > And an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis World wars were bigger - were all those elections "historic"?. The Civil War was in the US - was 1864 "historic"? > with the country's first black presidential candidate is historic no matter how you slice it. Racist :-) (Didn't you get the memo? Any mention of race is an attack on "The One".)
  - mhartl 18y ago
    Me? Based on what? I think it was the repetition of "US ... election" that gave me that impression, and in particular the inclusion of "US" in the construction. As a US native, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me to include that modifier, so I guessed that you might not be American. what makes this one so different? Well, "an election in the midst of two wars and a global financial crisis with the country's first black presidential candidate", for starters. Not to mention arguably America's lowest standing in the world since WWII. I remember seven elections and have voted in four, and (despite the "historic" claims four years ago) this one feels bigger than any of them.
    - anamax 18y ago
      > As a US native, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me to include that modifier, so I guessed that you might not be American. Never considered the possibility that an American might internationalize? > I remember seven elections and have voted in four Newbie :-) (The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" comes to mind during this election.) How about the possibility that you're trying to relive when elections were new (to you)? > Not to mention arguably America's lowest standing in the world since WWII. Still irrelevant. When other countries need something, other countries forget "standing". When America needs something, they happily sell or don't have the capability. (Yes, Australia and some of the Euro contries have some amazing troops. However, they don't have many of them and they can't transport them.) As someone once said in a slightly different context, if you want a friend, get a dog. Countries act out of perceived self-interest not friendship, standing, etc. (Disagree? Provide examples where "friendship" trumped perceived self-interest.) If you insist on listening to Monday morning quarterbacks, shouldn't you at least pick ones whose predictions are reasonably accurate?
- ivankirigin 18y ago
  "I find it hard to believe you could live in (and love) this country without feeling..." I do think this election is important. I also think it's reasonable to think it doesn't matter. My comment was about your reaction, not the premise :)