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I'm constantly surprised that Western backpackers don't use tumplines. Virtually every culture in the world uses them, if they don't balance the load right on t

I'm constantly surprised that Western backpackers don't use tumplines. Virtually every culture in the world uses them, if they don't balance the load right on top of their head. It makes everything easier. But I guess it's not "dignified", or perhaps recalls the porters that work for the stylish westerners that pay for them

Retric 4y ago
It’s a difference in intent. Tumolines are great for heavy loads but interfere with the fun aspects of backpacking. People would rather take less stuff if it means they can more easily take in the view.
- eesmith 4y ago
  Here's an example. The Duluth Pack (https://www.duluthpack.com/products/2-original-59l https://www.duluthpack.com/products/2-original-59l) includes a tumpline. The pack was designed over a century ago, for wilderness canoeing. Here's an picture of someone using it with a tumpline: https://archive.org/details/beyondpaddlecano0000cono/page/66/mode/2up?q=%22Duluth+pack%22+tumpline https://archive.org/details/beyondpaddlecano0000cono/page/66... . This fits your description because it's used when portaging. The goal is to get to the next navigable stretch of water, not take in the view, while carrying 100+ pounds of gear in the bag and a canoe over one's head. In canoeing they are used for relatively short stretches. The various sources say it's not that comfortable. I found a backpacking guide from 1971 which explains the issue: "If you can stand the abuse, a tumpline surpasses all devices for toting heavy, bulky, or awkward loads. A 100-pound burden is routine among the few who understand the tumpline. During its heyday, 200-pound loads were commonplace among voyageurs in the fur trade ... The packer must lean forward abnormally. It is not a rig for amateur packers or for occasional weekend trips. In fact, the tumpline must be approached with respect. It will handle tremendous loads but only after your neck muscles have been developed. No packing device depends more upon sheer bull strength, but it does the job." - https://archive.org/details/backcountrycampi00rivi/page/16/mode/2up?q=%22Duluth+pack%22+tumpline https://archive.org/details/backcountrycampi00rivi/page/16/m... I expect that if you're part of a culture where people need to to carry heavy loads often, then you'll start young and build up the neck muscles which will make it more comfortable. Someone going backpacking a few weeks every year is not going to have the same specific training.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    > Someone going backpacking a few weeks every year is not going to have the same specific training. In fact, the paper goes into details about the specific strength training program carried out for this Chaco Canyon research. From https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jasrep.2023.103876 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jasrep.2023.103876 : "Author JC, a certified strength and conditioning specialist (CSCS), designed the training protocol. Subjects trained 6 or 7 days per week for 10 to 60 + minutes per day. Subjects initially alternated daily between training for a short duration (15–30 min) versus a longer duration (30–60 + min of carriage). For approximately the first half of the training program, the longer duration training sessions used lighter loads and the shorter duration training sessions used heavier loads. This allowed for subjects to become accustomed to both heavier loads and longer duration carries separately. By ∼Day 45 of training, subjects had become comfortable with heavier loads (∼25 kg) and henceforth kept the loads fairly constant while increasing session durations. By varying the loads and durations, subjects progressed in their training program with minimal soreness and no pain. Note that for safety, when donning and doffing the tumpline, the training logs were supported by a bench or table, at the approximate height of the lower back. By the end of the training phase, subjects JW and RK were able to comfortably carry 30 kg for 60 min solo without pain."
  - alexpotato 4y ago
    I have the original hardcover version of this book! This whole thread reminded me of reading about tumplines but I couldn't remember where and this was it.
themodelplumber 4y ago
> But I guess it's not "dignified" #1 reason might be that it never occurred to this westerner. #2-5 are probably things like availability, you sure that thing isn't painful, etc. Really, concerns about dignity are not even on the list of reasons why I don't use a tumpline. FWIW I am in California though, and people would possibly see such a thing and simply think I'm a granola-lifer, possibly a rural cultist or one of the local caucasian monks of some kind. We have quite a few monasteries nearby.
klyrs 4y ago
I wonder the same, but not for backpacking. As a leisure activity, where one goes to enjoy the sights, spotting interesting flora and fauna and perhaps keeping an eye out for threats like bears or big cats, staring at the ground is not the favored posture.
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
The packs used by nearly all backpackers transfer weight to your hips, such that the shoulder straps are relatively loose and only there for stability not holding the load. Having your head locked into a band is considerably less comfortable, especially if the point of being out there is to look up not down. It avoids compressing your spine even. I would 100% choose a modern backpack over your suggestion on any sort of rough terrain. You're really doing a pretzel twist here to turn this into some moral objection, and I say that as someone far more leftist than most of hnews.
- OkayPhysicist 4y ago
  I'm not convinced the tumpline has any real advantage over hip-distributed backpacks. It's obviously a huge improvement over shoulder-weighted backpacks, but the listed weight ranges (100-200lb) sound pretty doable in a classic backpacking pack. I'm pretty sure the person you replied to thinks that backpacking backpacks sit on your shoulders like schoolbags.
swatcoder 4y ago
Wait until you hear about fanny packs
- account-5 4y ago
  Or bumbags.
wodenokoto 4y ago
> I'm constantly surprised that Western backpackers don't use tumplines I've yet to meet a non-western backpacker that uses tumplines. In fact, looking broadly at travelsers, in airports I see Africans, Middle Easterns, Asians, and Latinos using backpacks for carry-on. I've never seen anyone use tumplines.
AngryData 4y ago
If you are moving larger loads over known paths I see it being very useful, but most backpackers aren't just trying to move weight or materials around and would give a large preference towards free head movement for sightseeing and pathfinding.

Retric 4y ago

It’s a difference in intent. Tumolines are great for heavy loads but interfere with the fun aspects of backpacking. People would rather take less stuff if it means they can more easily take in the view.

eesmith 4y ago
Here's an example. The Duluth Pack (https://www.duluthpack.com/products/2-original-59l https://www.duluthpack.com/products/2-original-59l) includes a tumpline. The pack was designed over a century ago, for wilderness canoeing. Here's an picture of someone using it with a tumpline: https://archive.org/details/beyondpaddlecano0000cono/page/66/mode/2up?q=%22Duluth+pack%22+tumpline https://archive.org/details/beyondpaddlecano0000cono/page/66... . This fits your description because it's used when portaging. The goal is to get to the next navigable stretch of water, not take in the view, while carrying 100+ pounds of gear in the bag and a canoe over one's head. In canoeing they are used for relatively short stretches. The various sources say it's not that comfortable. I found a backpacking guide from 1971 which explains the issue: "If you can stand the abuse, a tumpline surpasses all devices for toting heavy, bulky, or awkward loads. A 100-pound burden is routine among the few who understand the tumpline. During its heyday, 200-pound loads were commonplace among voyageurs in the fur trade ... The packer must lean forward abnormally. It is not a rig for amateur packers or for occasional weekend trips. In fact, the tumpline must be approached with respect. It will handle tremendous loads but only after your neck muscles have been developed. No packing device depends more upon sheer bull strength, but it does the job." - https://archive.org/details/backcountrycampi00rivi/page/16/mode/2up?q=%22Duluth+pack%22+tumpline https://archive.org/details/backcountrycampi00rivi/page/16/m... I expect that if you're part of a culture where people need to to carry heavy loads often, then you'll start young and build up the neck muscles which will make it more comfortable. Someone going backpacking a few weeks every year is not going to have the same specific training.
- eesmith 4y ago
  > Someone going backpacking a few weeks every year is not going to have the same specific training. In fact, the paper goes into details about the specific strength training program carried out for this Chaco Canyon research. From https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jasrep.2023.103876 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jasrep.2023.103876 : "Author JC, a certified strength and conditioning specialist (CSCS), designed the training protocol. Subjects trained 6 or 7 days per week for 10 to 60 + minutes per day. Subjects initially alternated daily between training for a short duration (15–30 min) versus a longer duration (30–60 + min of carriage). For approximately the first half of the training program, the longer duration training sessions used lighter loads and the shorter duration training sessions used heavier loads. This allowed for subjects to become accustomed to both heavier loads and longer duration carries separately. By ∼Day 45 of training, subjects had become comfortable with heavier loads (∼25 kg) and henceforth kept the loads fairly constant while increasing session durations. By varying the loads and durations, subjects progressed in their training program with minimal soreness and no pain. Note that for safety, when donning and doffing the tumpline, the training logs were supported by a bench or table, at the approximate height of the lower back. By the end of the training phase, subjects JW and RK were able to comfortably carry 30 kg for 60 min solo without pain."
- alexpotato 4y ago
  I have the original hardcover version of this book! This whole thread reminded me of reading about tumplines but I couldn't remember where and this was it.

themodelplumber 4y ago

> But I guess it's not "dignified" #1 reason might be that it never occurred to this westerner. #2-5 are probably things like availability, you sure that thing isn't painful, etc. Really, concerns about dignity are not even on the list of reasons why I don't use a tumpline. FWIW I am in California though, and people would possibly see such a thing and simply think I'm a granola-lifer, possibly a rural cultist or one of the local caucasian monks of some kind. We have quite a few monasteries nearby.

klyrs 4y ago

I wonder the same, but not for backpacking. As a leisure activity, where one goes to enjoy the sights, spotting interesting flora and fauna and perhaps keeping an eye out for threats like bears or big cats, staring at the ground is not the favored posture.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

The packs used by nearly all backpackers transfer weight to your hips, such that the shoulder straps are relatively loose and only there for stability not holding the load. Having your head locked into a band is considerably less comfortable, especially if the point of being out there is to look up not down. It avoids compressing your spine even. I would 100% choose a modern backpack over your suggestion on any sort of rough terrain. You're really doing a pretzel twist here to turn this into some moral objection, and I say that as someone far more leftist than most of hnews.

OkayPhysicist 4y ago
I'm not convinced the tumpline has any real advantage over hip-distributed backpacks. It's obviously a huge improvement over shoulder-weighted backpacks, but the listed weight ranges (100-200lb) sound pretty doable in a classic backpacking pack. I'm pretty sure the person you replied to thinks that backpacking backpacks sit on your shoulders like schoolbags.

swatcoder 4y ago

Wait until you hear about fanny packs

account-5 4y ago
Or bumbags.

wodenokoto 4y ago

> I'm constantly surprised that Western backpackers don't use tumplines I've yet to meet a non-western backpacker that uses tumplines. In fact, looking broadly at travelsers, in airports I see Africans, Middle Easterns, Asians, and Latinos using backpacks for carry-on. I've never seen anyone use tumplines.

AngryData 4y ago

If you are moving larger loads over known paths I see it being very useful, but most backpackers aren't just trying to move weight or materials around and would give a large preference towards free head movement for sightseeing and pathfinding.