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http://crimeflare.eu.org http://crimeflare.eu.org CloudFlare is a MitMaaS. Traffic is seen by them because they are in control of the HTTPS certificates, and y

http://crimeflare.eu.org http://crimeflare.eu.org CloudFlare is a MitMaaS. Traffic is seen by them because they are in control of the HTTPS certificates, and you have to take them at their word that they do not log content (and even if they're not lying/under a gag order, just metadata is enough for a lot of evil things).

Tijdreiziger 4y ago
So are AWS and Azure also MitMaaS? If yes, what's the endgame? Everyone goes back to managing their own servers? If no, why is Cloudflare the only hosting provider that gets singled out?
- danuker 4y ago
  Good point. Yes, they are, as are all cloud services. But with AWS and Azure it's more explicit, in that the server is running on their machines. With Cloudflare, you may not realize this if you don't know how HTTPS works. The end game is not necessarily to avoid all use of cloud services, but to be aware of their functioning and their trade-offs, and avoid them where third party spying is crucial to prevent.
  - simultsop 4y ago
    Again better option than the rest of shared hosting industry where a company of 50 or 500 can lurk into user space and for courtesy take a look what is going on. I see CF promoting ZeroTrust services and I believe they use them for themselves first hand. Any digital information is always prone to compromise, whether it remains in my pocket or in the bunker of Area51...
edaemon 4y ago
Wouldn't this criticism apply to all content delivery networks? They have to terminate TLS in order to know which content to deliver.
corobo 4y ago
Are you getting confused with a VPN? Those words in that order are a bad thing for a VPN, not so much a CDN. These are all reasons I use Cloudflare lmao. Yes I need them to decrypt the traffic because they do various rules and caching for me. That DDoS protection would be pretty naff if they couldn't see the traffic! In one case I really wish they did log, I had to write my own Worker to log the info I needed. If we were talking outbound proxy then fair enough but it's not like Cloudflare have strongarmed me into using them.. it was me that updated the NS records! A lot of the list from that site just seem to describe what Cloudflare does, they don't seem to say why each thing is actually a bad thing. Really does feel like someone's got a hate rod on for Cloudflare and tried to crowbar in as many VPN criticisms without understanding the difference between a VPN/proxy and a CDN.
- danuker 4y ago
  I am equally repelled by VPNs[1] and CDNs[2]. I probably should have started with my own articles. 1 - https://danuker.go.ro/dont-use-vpns.html https://danuker.go.ro/dont-use-vpns.html 2 - https://danuker.go.ro/how-to-protect-your-personal-data.html https://danuker.go.ro/how-to-protect-your-personal-data.html
  - corobo 4y ago
    Even your own article (VPN hate is a given, of course, moving on) doesn't really go into the why of the reasoning. They might get hacked? So might my site! In fact if you were a dedicated attacker I'd advise you go after my hosting rather than try to crack Cloudflare, it'll be much quicker. Probably be even quicker to just come at me irl and start snapping fingers until I logged you in as an admin. They might sell data or censor my site? I doubt they would but if they did start doing so it takes like 20 seconds to update the nameservers. I'm not being held hostage, promise! The arguments just don't work when it's my site and I've consented to using Cloudflare. You're welcome to block Cloudflare's networks your side if you don't want to use them of course but I want all of the things they do in between you and my site. That's why am using them.
    - danuker 4y ago

Tijdreiziger 4y ago

So are AWS and Azure also MitMaaS? If yes, what's the endgame? Everyone goes back to managing their own servers? If no, why is Cloudflare the only hosting provider that gets singled out?

danuker 4y ago
Good point. Yes, they are, as are all cloud services. But with AWS and Azure it's more explicit, in that the server is running on their machines. With Cloudflare, you may not realize this if you don't know how HTTPS works. The end game is not necessarily to avoid all use of cloud services, but to be aware of their functioning and their trade-offs, and avoid them where third party spying is crucial to prevent.
- simultsop 4y ago
  Again better option than the rest of shared hosting industry where a company of 50 or 500 can lurk into user space and for courtesy take a look what is going on. I see CF promoting ZeroTrust services and I believe they use them for themselves first hand. Any digital information is always prone to compromise, whether it remains in my pocket or in the bunker of Area51...

edaemon 4y ago

Wouldn't this criticism apply to all content delivery networks? They have to terminate TLS in order to know which content to deliver.

corobo 4y ago

Are you getting confused with a VPN? Those words in that order are a bad thing for a VPN, not so much a CDN. These are all reasons I use Cloudflare lmao. Yes I need them to decrypt the traffic because they do various rules and caching for me. That DDoS protection would be pretty naff if they couldn't see the traffic! In one case I really wish they did log, I had to write my own Worker to log the info I needed. If we were talking outbound proxy then fair enough but it's not like Cloudflare have strongarmed me into using them.. it was me that updated the NS records! A lot of the list from that site just seem to describe what Cloudflare does, they don't seem to say why each thing is actually a bad thing. Really does feel like someone's got a hate rod on for Cloudflare and tried to crowbar in as many VPN criticisms without understanding the difference between a VPN/proxy and a CDN.

danuker 4y ago
I am equally repelled by VPNs[1] and CDNs[2]. I probably should have started with my own articles. 1 - https://danuker.go.ro/dont-use-vpns.html https://danuker.go.ro/dont-use-vpns.html 2 - https://danuker.go.ro/how-to-protect-your-personal-data.html https://danuker.go.ro/how-to-protect-your-personal-data.html
- corobo 4y ago
  Even your own article (VPN hate is a given, of course, moving on) doesn't really go into the why of the reasoning. They might get hacked? So might my site! In fact if you were a dedicated attacker I'd advise you go after my hosting rather than try to crack Cloudflare, it'll be much quicker. Probably be even quicker to just come at me irl and start snapping fingers until I logged you in as an admin. They might sell data or censor my site? I doubt they would but if they did start doing so it takes like 20 seconds to update the nameservers. I'm not being held hostage, promise! The arguments just don't work when it's my site and I've consented to using Cloudflare. You're welcome to block Cloudflare's networks your side if you don't want to use them of course but I want all of the things they do in between you and my site. That's why am using them.
  - danuker 4y ago