5 ms·

Linux 6.2 and Apple Silicon clarification

155 points by jasoneckert 4y ago

Gys 4y ago
Does support for the M1 automatically mean support for the M2 as well?
- captn3m0 4y ago
  Asahi supports M2, but I don’t think there’s a clear patch parity in both for what’s been merged upstream.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  It does look like they had to do extra work for the M2 so it wasn’t just a for free feature.
- dagmx 4y ago
  It depends what you’re talking about specifically. There are differences in how input devices are handled etc… and there may be other component differences. So in that sense it’s the same as Linux on any other arch. It’ll support the arch but support for other pieces may vary.
- ProllyInfamous 4y ago
  No. Each individual processor AND form factor has its own unique challenges. Developer page has a FAQ with a table which details non-functional for each configuration. For example, my M2Pro MINI has limited feature support, relative to an M1 MacBook Air. For a long time, the M1Ultra was not supported (and I believe currently still is not, but I am a few weeks behind since install).
  - i67vw3 4y ago
    So, which Apple ARM processor/device supports the Asashi Linux to its full extent?
cf100clunk 4y ago
From the tweet: ''There is an ongoing news cycle about Linux 6.2 being the first kernel to support the M1, started by @ZDNET. This article is misleading and borderline false. You will not be able to run Ubuntu nor any other standard distro with 6.2 on any M1 Mac. Please don't get your hopes up.'' The ZDNet article at the core of the controversy: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-6-2-the-first-mainstream-linux-kernel-for-apple-m1-chips-arrives/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-6-2-the-first-mainstream... SVN getting overenthusiastic, it would seem.
skrrtww 4y ago
Interested to see how the page size issues are worked out. Coming down on one side or the other seems detrimental. I've watched some of marcan/lina's work on GPU stuff, but I haven't heard their vision for resolving those issues yet.
frankjr 4y ago
Could anybody provide more context about the issue regarding the page size?
- jasoneckert 4y ago
  Check out the IOMMU section here: https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-2021/ https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-202...
jeroenhd 4y ago
I can see why people will end up disappointed by the way this is being reported. Support for a machine in a kernel means the thing boots without crashing if you pick the right configuration. You can probably get to a bash shell in Debian with the upstream kernel if you get the build script. For non-x64 devices, building a kernel that works and boots can be a disappointingly tricky experience. ZDNet should know that a vast amount of people think "Ubuntu" or maybe "Debian" when they hear Linux being mentioned, because there are no common desktop operating systems where the kernel and the thing you're actually using are entirely separate things managed bg separate entities. You can't add macOS to the Windows kernel or use the Windows 7 desktop on a Windows 11 kernel (as much as I'd wish that to be possible), it's just not a concept most people, even Linux users, can easily wrap their head around. This is still great news for people who buy M2 machines for use as a server, because you don't need Bluetooth/WiFi/keyboard/touch pad support for that. I doubt many people will use their expensive Macbook as a NAS that way, though.
- brundolf 4y ago
  > I doubt many people will use their expensive Macbook as a NAS that way, though Maybe a Mac Mini though. Could be an interesting server option in the long run, the AS ones are a pretty decent bang for the buck
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    Asking for a friend… If you wanted to use a Mac mini as a NAS, what would you use for the disks? Is there a decent Thunderbolt/USB disk chassis that would work well, use very little electricity, and make no noise? IE, be a perfect pair for a Mac mini?
    - Clubber 4y ago
      https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2 I currently use the 3.5" 4 bay, but it has a fan. It's not very noisy, but I appreciate the need for quiet. The one I linked doesn't seem to and will hold 4 NVMe SSDs. No hardware raid unfortunately.
quasisphere 4y ago
Just to make sure that people understand the clarification correctly: This is about upstreaming the work by Asahi Linux team. In particular, Linux on Apple Silicon macs is quite usable already if you use their own Arch-based distribution which includes yet-to-be-upstreamed patches. I run it on my M1 Air and the only major (to me) things with no support yet are the builtin speakers (afaik support is coming soon) and the webcam.
- nilsbunger 4y ago
  Funny that they didn't mention it! Seems like an obvious thing for them to plug their own distribution.
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    They tend to be very cautious about advertising it as usable vs in testing itself. E.g. GPU acceleration is an opt in to the edge packages of Asahi, which they consider at alpha stage itself. Even with that approach there is still a surprising number of users that join IRC confused it's not further along, largely because there is a huge variance in what one considers usable.
- mikae1 4y ago
  Regarding the speakers: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109917995005981968 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109917995005981968
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- jasoneckert 4y ago
  Ditto here - I run Asahi on my Mac Studio, and all features I require work perfectly (HDMI, GPU driver, Bluetooth, sound, 10G networking, WiFi, etc.): http://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/stuff/AsahiSwayM1Ultra.png http://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/stuff/AsahiSwayM1Ult...
gumby 4y ago
I thought the tweet thread was quite good: Asahi laying down the state of the art without (to my read) making any self-aggrandizing claims, even though they are the distro putting in the work.

155 points by jasoneckert 4y ago

Gys 4y ago

Does support for the M1 automatically mean support for the M2 as well?

captn3m0 4y ago
Asahi supports M2, but I don’t think there’s a clear patch parity in both for what’s been merged upstream.
Gigachad 4y ago
It does look like they had to do extra work for the M2 so it wasn’t just a for free feature.
dagmx 4y ago
It depends what you’re talking about specifically. There are differences in how input devices are handled etc… and there may be other component differences. So in that sense it’s the same as Linux on any other arch. It’ll support the arch but support for other pieces may vary.
ProllyInfamous 4y ago
No. Each individual processor AND form factor has its own unique challenges. Developer page has a FAQ with a table which details non-functional for each configuration. For example, my M2Pro MINI has limited feature support, relative to an M1 MacBook Air. For a long time, the M1Ultra was not supported (and I believe currently still is not, but I am a few weeks behind since install).
- i67vw3 4y ago
  So, which Apple ARM processor/device supports the Asashi Linux to its full extent?

cf100clunk 4y ago

From the tweet: ''There is an ongoing news cycle about Linux 6.2 being the first kernel to support the M1, started by @ZDNET. This article is misleading and borderline false. You will not be able to run Ubuntu nor any other standard distro with 6.2 on any M1 Mac. Please don't get your hopes up.'' The ZDNet article at the core of the controversy: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-6-2-the-first-mainstream-linux-kernel-for-apple-m1-chips-arrives/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-6-2-the-first-mainstream... SVN getting overenthusiastic, it would seem.

skrrtww 4y ago

Interested to see how the page size issues are worked out. Coming down on one side or the other seems detrimental. I've watched some of marcan/lina's work on GPU stuff, but I haven't heard their vision for resolving those issues yet.

frankjr 4y ago

Could anybody provide more context about the issue regarding the page size?

jasoneckert 4y ago
Check out the IOMMU section here: https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-2021/ https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-202...

jeroenhd 4y ago

I can see why people will end up disappointed by the way this is being reported. Support for a machine in a kernel means the thing boots without crashing if you pick the right configuration. You can probably get to a bash shell in Debian with the upstream kernel if you get the build script. For non-x64 devices, building a kernel that works and boots can be a disappointingly tricky experience. ZDNet should know that a vast amount of people think "Ubuntu" or maybe "Debian" when they hear Linux being mentioned, because there are no common desktop operating systems where the kernel and the thing you're actually using are entirely separate things managed bg separate entities. You can't add macOS to the Windows kernel or use the Windows 7 desktop on a Windows 11 kernel (as much as I'd wish that to be possible), it's just not a concept most people, even Linux users, can easily wrap their head around. This is still great news for people who buy M2 machines for use as a server, because you don't need Bluetooth/WiFi/keyboard/touch pad support for that. I doubt many people will use their expensive Macbook as a NAS that way, though.

brundolf 4y ago
> I doubt many people will use their expensive Macbook as a NAS that way, though Maybe a Mac Mini though. Could be an interesting server option in the long run, the AS ones are a pretty decent bang for the buck
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  Asking for a friend… If you wanted to use a Mac mini as a NAS, what would you use for the disks? Is there a decent Thunderbolt/USB disk chassis that would work well, use very little electricity, and make no noise? IE, be a perfect pair for a Mac mini?
  - Clubber 4y ago
    https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2 https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/express-4m2 I currently use the 3.5" 4 bay, but it has a fan. It's not very noisy, but I appreciate the need for quiet. The one I linked doesn't seem to and will hold 4 NVMe SSDs. No hardware raid unfortunately.

quasisphere 4y ago

Just to make sure that people understand the clarification correctly: This is about upstreaming the work by Asahi Linux team. In particular, Linux on Apple Silicon macs is quite usable already if you use their own Arch-based distribution which includes yet-to-be-upstreamed patches. I run it on my M1 Air and the only major (to me) things with no support yet are the builtin speakers (afaik support is coming soon) and the webcam.

nilsbunger 4y ago
Funny that they didn't mention it! Seems like an obvious thing for them to plug their own distribution.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  They tend to be very cautious about advertising it as usable vs in testing itself. E.g. GPU acceleration is an opt in to the edge packages of Asahi, which they consider at alpha stage itself. Even with that approach there is still a surprising number of users that join IRC confused it's not further along, largely because there is a huge variance in what one considers usable.
mikae1 4y ago
Regarding the speakers: https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109917995005981968 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109917995005981968
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jasoneckert 4y ago
Ditto here - I run Asahi on my Mac Studio, and all features I require work perfectly (HDMI, GPU driver, Bluetooth, sound, 10G networking, WiFi, etc.): http://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/stuff/AsahiSwayM1Ultra.png http://triosdevelopers.com/jason.eckert/stuff/AsahiSwayM1Ult...

gumby 4y ago

I thought the tweet thread was quite good: Asahi laying down the state of the art without (to my read) making any self-aggrandizing claims, even though they are the distro putting in the work.