9 ms·

Quote sadly has not held up will in the last couple decades. We are now led by a louder more extreme minority that aggressively police’s discussion points. Fo

Quote sadly has not held up will in the last couple decades. We are now led by a louder more extreme minority that aggressively police’s discussion points. For example I am mostly liberal and was a fan of Bernie Sanders. However in my personal case I don’t believe transgender and gender identity roles are something that should be pressed on still developing minors. The problem here is you may agree or not agree but the point I am making is just my view on this equals bigot / hater .. etc. Any deviation from a strict all or nothing approach is silenced through bullying and harassment. No room or in there is not even any desire for real discussion … it is just accept these things as “truth” or be labeled some form of hater. It wasn’t so long ago that real discussion still happened on platforms like reddit and others …now it is curated to the point of nonsense.

greenhorn360 4y ago
So you want to raise children without gender?
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  That sound you hear is OPs point flying over your head
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  Well, I sometimes wish I was born an eagle because I like travelling, flying and chasing the sun. I am not going to try to have a surgery to make it happen. There is nobody with no gender, there are rarities with natural double gender features, but strictly speaking, nature assigns a gender during early pregnancy. All the ideas about gender changes occur to people later on and based on personal feelings/factors. The mind is something that develops by education and experience, not genetic urges as far I am aware. If schools and parents would educate kids saying theres no such thing like gender and you get to choose and society lets the promoters of such go rampant, I imagine this would not lead to a net positive outcome.
  - simonsaysso 4y ago
    You are using gender to mean both sex and gender. You are assigned a biological sex by… biology. You get to choose your own gender.
    - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
      Well, fair enough, that concept has never been discussed during my education(that ended 20 years ago), so I am not in the loop except from what I have seen online about it. It seems it got a bit traction in the US, in Europe is relatively unheard of as of yet.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    There are nonbinary people, such as myself. Public Universal Friend is another notable nonbinary person from history.
    - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
      Thanks for the heads up, please keep in mind I have never heard of that term until recently. In Europe this used to be called brashly scheduled cross dressing or something along the lines.
- bauruine 4y ago
  I'm from Switzerland so I may get "gender" wrong but yeah that is the progressive take here since the 2000s or so. That just means that you shouldn't force gender stereotypes on children. Let boys play with Barbies and wear pink if the like it and stuff like that. But nobody thought about their gender because of this, they are still boys. Nowadays, at least from what I read online, it feels like your gender depends on these sterotypes and if you don't conform to them you're trans.
  - deanCommie 4y ago
    Those don't even need to be gender stereotypes. There is nothing (or there SHOULDN'T be) masculine about liking Trucks or Barbies. But there are things that at least today still fairly strongly tied to gender Expression. Wearing skirts. Painting nails. There used to be more such things! Wearing pants. Having a labour-based job. Feminism enabled women to pick and choose aspects of things gendered masculine and incorporate them as needed. The reverse hasn't caught up - mostly because of misogyny, honestly. It's reasonable that "Women want to be more like men". It's demeaning when men want to be more like women. But this is all still gender expression, not identity. Where does expression end and identity begins? The answer is actually very difficult to establish. This line is constantly shifting, but it takes decades. Is it possible that if we completely removed all social stigma on any kind of "gendered" expression, and allowed everyone to behave exactly how they want, would there be any gender binary remaining except biological? Would the majority of people end up some sort of "non-binary" and there would be no more reason to "transition"? It's possible. But that will take decades, and meanwhile there are people today, in today's society, who are suffering. And this is just me taking a very shallow look at the problem that is sympathetic to people who say things like "This transition thing doesn't make ay sense, just act how you act, you don't need hormones or surgery for that". There is another layer which is dysphoria, and then we get into a question of innate gender identity. I suspect a part of it remains. The only way we find out the reality of what humans are like, and how they belong in our society, is by being accepting, and welcoming, and believing those that are trying to tell us what they want and need. Unfortunately, to a lot of people, someone being "accepting" of an idea they disagree with, sounds like "encouragement" of the idea. So now you have all these stories of teachers grooming children to believe they're trans. And it's just b.s.
klyrs 4y ago
> However in my personal case I don’t believe transgender and gender identity roles are something that should be pressed on still developing minors. I don't think those things should be pressed on developing minors either. But I see people of all stripes dressing their boys in pants and their girls in skirts; blue for boys, pink for girls; encouraging boys to hang with boys and play with "boy things" and girls to hang with girls and play with "girl things" and romanticizing cross-gender interactions between children as young as a day old. I don't think we should be forcing these norms on children of this age. But I suspect that what you're actually saying is that we should not tolerate transgender expression in children. Which, I submit, violates the rights of that child to express themselves. And, by the way, freedom of speech includes the freedom to respond to deplorable speech with criticism and even shunning. If somebody thinks that you're a bigot or a hater, will you defend their rights to say so?
- nailer 4y ago
  > But I see people of all stripes dressing their boys in pants and their girls in skirts; blue for boys, pink for girls; encouraging boys to hang with boys and play with "boy things" and girls to hang with girls and play with "girl things" and romanticizing cross-gender interactions between children as young as a day old. I don't think we should be forcing these norms on children of this age. I don't think we should be either. But asides from the well known differences in brain size and white / grey matter ratios which I'm sure you're already with, I encourage you to visit your local Lesbian Mother's Group where I am sure you will find many parents who absolutely believe in year-0 of sex differences and who, based on my sister's experiences, are often very surprised about how boys and girls act. > But I suspect that what you're actually saying is that we should not tolerate transgender expression in children. There is no reason to say this. Many people against gender theory are former 'tomboys' that are healthy adults, don't conform to gender stereotypes, and are glad that breast binding, hormones and cosmetic surgery weren't foisted on them as children.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    Local Lesbian Mother here. What do you mean by "healthy adults"?
tsimionescu 4y ago
I'm not sure I understand your position. Do you believe there any possible opinion is legitimate, and that there is nothing that someone could believe in that should get them labeled a hater and socially ostracized? Should we feel a need to become friends with klansmen to prove that we are open minded? And if not, then how do you draw the line? If there are people who find your own opinion abhorrent or othering or whatever and wish not to associate or discuss with you, by what authority are they wrong? Do you personally feel the need to debate every opinion you hear? How many times should you defend your own opinion before it becoming acceptable not to want to discuss it again? And just to engage a little bit with your particular opinion, I for one am immediately suspicious of any argument that says "non-sexual non-violent behavior X is acceptable, but not around children". Of course, I am open to the idea that in principle you may have some compelling arguments that I haven't heard before. However, I don't think it's very likely, so my prior would be that you are indeed not very trans friendly. If I were trans, I would be quite inclined to avoid you because of that, and very disinclined to debate this particular point with you in any setting where a more hostile discussion might reflect poorly on me (say, in the workplace). I don't think this reasoning is overly emotional or thought-ending. It's a rational way to respond to speech that may become confrontational.
- roody15 4y ago
  Identity formation is an complex and fascinating subject in human development. As an educator and father of three can also chime in with my own personal experience. I believe that many (if not most) people do not have a fully formed identity around gender or around sexuality by the age of 15-16. So asking questions to this group on whether they identity as this or that may actually cause some psychological harm because they are still in the process of forming an identity on multiple fronts. Imagine being a 15 year young women just out of middle school. You are extremely uncomfortable with you’re body, appearance and just now discovering things of a sexual nature. This period is difficult for many regardless of sexual orientation or gender. Now imagine going into your freshman english class and the first question asked by your teacher is introduce yourself and your preferred pronoun. This may seem progressive and tolerant but consider it may also be harmful to minors at this stage of development. Now as an adult if you feel you may have gender dysmorphia and start to identify as a deferent gender than birth .. by all means. In this case I am fully supportive and want people to feel comfortable and find happiness, I also believe we live in a mostly free society so as an adult this is absolutely within your rights. If you read this far I thank you and am fine is you disagree. Just my thought is my perspective (and many others) as a father of three girls and educator for 20 years should allow for some nuisance in discussion. My issue is not wether you and I agree on this topic as I assume you have your own valid perspective and experience .. my issue is that this topic is put off limits in many cases and it’s an all or nothing acceptance on supporting trans rights and what that entails.
Spivak 4y ago
Where it gets complicated is dealing with dog whistles. Because you’re not actually expressing an opinion that liberals disagree with. No one wants a kid who expresses some gender nonconformity to be pressured into identifying as trans or transitioning. The liberal position is and always has been such things should be made available to everyone with appropriate medical and psychiatric supervision. But in our shirty new world online discourse the game is now to say something that is obviously true “kids shouldn’t be forced to transition” but then actually mean something else “kids shouldn’t be allowed to transition” and then introduce legislation to that effect. So if you go on the internet and say these kinds of things that no one really disagrees with like it’s a hot take then people pick up pretty fast what you mean. The people caught it the crossfire are unfortunately those folks who actually hold the literal opinion that got appropriated because bigots realized it they could use it as a whistle.
- nailer 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Transitioning != Surgery You have to be 18 for GRS or 16 if you have very very long standing documented history of debilitating dysphoria. It is the same for top surgery and any other cosmetic procedures. HRT isn’t until puberty. Kids transitioning is name, pronouns, clothes, and where they stand in boy girl boy girl lines at school. I swear ever time I talk to people about these issues at events or whatever people will go on long rants and end with me being like yep, not only go I agree but that’s how it currently works. Like the accommodation that trans kids/teens want with locker rooms is single person stalls so they don’t have to change in front of their classmates or awkwardly maneuver around a toilet but the rhetoric you see is completely opposite of that. Genuinely, I am sorry and what or whoever made you feel like you were bigoted or transphobic for basically agreeing with WPATH standards.
    - nailer 4y ago
      [flagged]
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
I agree with you, same for religion imposed on kids, it plain brainwashing. Religion has a few good things like the ten commandments at least, though. Pushing gender identity on teenagers who do not even know how to urinate in a straight line and had no sexual intercourse yet is just plain wrong, always will be.The teens do not come up with these things themselves usually its often an external influence by highly irresponsible people pushing theit agenda. To me this is more controversial than the abortion issue. And thats right, I will openly oppose anyone who claims otherwise and I will certainly not die on any hill defending that. I can agree to disagree and that is that. All these who did the gender changes recently appear to be still unhappy and frustrated. Show me the success stories. This is nothing new by the way, there have been a number of thai boys for example undergoing hormone therapy and gender change more than 25 years ago, they often would work in prostitution. The difference is, they perhaps liked the idea and did it for sexualbor monetary reasons and came up with the idea independently, not via social media.
jancsika 4y ago
> Any deviation from a strict all or nothing approach is silenced through bullying and harassment. I don't agree, so let's test my hypothesis right here! I come armed only with a single, short article about trans desistance that was aimed a general audience, let's have a short but real discussion. Before that I was tabula rasa. IIRC the researcher Thomas Steensma quoted in the piece produced both of these results in the same set of published papers: 1. There is a high likelihood that some number of patients in his clinic will no longer identify as trans when they are older 2. There is a set of predictors which can be used to help identify minors in his clinic who will persist as trans when they are older Reading between the lines, it also appears this is one of the more conservative researchers-- i.e., his clinic waits to socially transition kids longer than other clinics do. Even so, what I read is that a) the guidelines for diagnosing gender dysphoria have become more stringent/accurate over the past few decades, and b) more research will reveal more predictors for persistence. Given that, your position at the very least is under-specified. You could be saying that you favor waiting to do social transitioning per this clinician's guidelines. Or, you could be arguing that you want the predictors and indicators fleshed out more before you'd be comfortable with the kinds of treatments these clinics provide. Or, you could mean that you reject (out of hand or otherwise) the research on these predictors and/or the accompanying body of research. All of those positions invite differing qualities of argumentation. And again, I've only read a single article here, so you may very well be privy to knowledge that would sway me in a different direction. But unless that single article was complete bunk, it appears that both the diagnosis of and treatment for gender dysphoria has improved over the past few decades, and that at least a part of the treatment is social transition where the costs and benefits of those who persist and desist need to be weighed. With my incredibly small amount of knowledge in this area, zero of this particular treatment option for everyone who is a minor certainly seems excessive. If that is indeed your position, then what is the evidence for it and why aren't experts in the field taking that evidence into account? In any case, I believe I have fulfilled the requirements for at least a single anecdatum that shows lack of bullying/harassment for your stated position. [1]: https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-re...
- trieste92 4y ago
renewiltord 4y ago
People are allowed to call you bigot or hater. That's freedom of speech. Even if you disagree with it.
UncleMeat 4y ago
> The problem here is you may agree or not agree but the point I am making is just my view on this equals bigot / hater Yes, some beliefs are inherently bigoted and hateful. The people holding those beliefs often don't see it that way. Slaveowners often thought they were doing the right thing for black people. I see no reason why presenting your beliefs about trans people in a kind way should make your beliefs land any softer. I see no reason to discuss these beliefs with you, as they bring nothing new to the table that has not been discussed before.

greenhorn360 4y ago

So you want to raise children without gender?

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
That sound you hear is OPs point flying over your head
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
Well, I sometimes wish I was born an eagle because I like travelling, flying and chasing the sun. I am not going to try to have a surgery to make it happen. There is nobody with no gender, there are rarities with natural double gender features, but strictly speaking, nature assigns a gender during early pregnancy. All the ideas about gender changes occur to people later on and based on personal feelings/factors. The mind is something that develops by education and experience, not genetic urges as far I am aware. If schools and parents would educate kids saying theres no such thing like gender and you get to choose and society lets the promoters of such go rampant, I imagine this would not lead to a net positive outcome.
- simonsaysso 4y ago
  You are using gender to mean both sex and gender. You are assigned a biological sex by… biology. You get to choose your own gender.
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    Well, fair enough, that concept has never been discussed during my education(that ended 20 years ago), so I am not in the loop except from what I have seen online about it. It seems it got a bit traction in the US, in Europe is relatively unheard of as of yet.
- flangola7 4y ago
  There are nonbinary people, such as myself. Public Universal Friend is another notable nonbinary person from history.
  - omgomgomgomg 4y ago
    Thanks for the heads up, please keep in mind I have never heard of that term until recently. In Europe this used to be called brashly scheduled cross dressing or something along the lines.
bauruine 4y ago
I'm from Switzerland so I may get "gender" wrong but yeah that is the progressive take here since the 2000s or so. That just means that you shouldn't force gender stereotypes on children. Let boys play with Barbies and wear pink if the like it and stuff like that. But nobody thought about their gender because of this, they are still boys. Nowadays, at least from what I read online, it feels like your gender depends on these sterotypes and if you don't conform to them you're trans.
- deanCommie 4y ago
  Those don't even need to be gender stereotypes. There is nothing (or there SHOULDN'T be) masculine about liking Trucks or Barbies. But there are things that at least today still fairly strongly tied to gender Expression. Wearing skirts. Painting nails. There used to be more such things! Wearing pants. Having a labour-based job. Feminism enabled women to pick and choose aspects of things gendered masculine and incorporate them as needed. The reverse hasn't caught up - mostly because of misogyny, honestly. It's reasonable that "Women want to be more like men". It's demeaning when men want to be more like women. But this is all still gender expression, not identity. Where does expression end and identity begins? The answer is actually very difficult to establish. This line is constantly shifting, but it takes decades. Is it possible that if we completely removed all social stigma on any kind of "gendered" expression, and allowed everyone to behave exactly how they want, would there be any gender binary remaining except biological? Would the majority of people end up some sort of "non-binary" and there would be no more reason to "transition"? It's possible. But that will take decades, and meanwhile there are people today, in today's society, who are suffering. And this is just me taking a very shallow look at the problem that is sympathetic to people who say things like "This transition thing doesn't make ay sense, just act how you act, you don't need hormones or surgery for that". There is another layer which is dysphoria, and then we get into a question of innate gender identity. I suspect a part of it remains. The only way we find out the reality of what humans are like, and how they belong in our society, is by being accepting, and welcoming, and believing those that are trying to tell us what they want and need. Unfortunately, to a lot of people, someone being "accepting" of an idea they disagree with, sounds like "encouragement" of the idea. So now you have all these stories of teachers grooming children to believe they're trans. And it's just b.s.

klyrs 4y ago

> However in my personal case I don’t believe transgender and gender identity roles are something that should be pressed on still developing minors. I don't think those things should be pressed on developing minors either. But I see people of all stripes dressing their boys in pants and their girls in skirts; blue for boys, pink for girls; encouraging boys to hang with boys and play with "boy things" and girls to hang with girls and play with "girl things" and romanticizing cross-gender interactions between children as young as a day old. I don't think we should be forcing these norms on children of this age. But I suspect that what you're actually saying is that we should not tolerate transgender expression in children. Which, I submit, violates the rights of that child to express themselves. And, by the way, freedom of speech includes the freedom to respond to deplorable speech with criticism and even shunning. If somebody thinks that you're a bigot or a hater, will you defend their rights to say so?

nailer 4y ago
> But I see people of all stripes dressing their boys in pants and their girls in skirts; blue for boys, pink for girls; encouraging boys to hang with boys and play with "boy things" and girls to hang with girls and play with "girl things" and romanticizing cross-gender interactions between children as young as a day old. I don't think we should be forcing these norms on children of this age. I don't think we should be either. But asides from the well known differences in brain size and white / grey matter ratios which I'm sure you're already with, I encourage you to visit your local Lesbian Mother's Group where I am sure you will find many parents who absolutely believe in year-0 of sex differences and who, based on my sister's experiences, are often very surprised about how boys and girls act. > But I suspect that what you're actually saying is that we should not tolerate transgender expression in children. There is no reason to say this. Many people against gender theory are former 'tomboys' that are healthy adults, don't conform to gender stereotypes, and are glad that breast binding, hormones and cosmetic surgery weren't foisted on them as children.
- klyrs 4y ago
  Local Lesbian Mother here. What do you mean by "healthy adults"?

tsimionescu 4y ago

I'm not sure I understand your position. Do you believe there any possible opinion is legitimate, and that there is nothing that someone could believe in that should get them labeled a hater and socially ostracized? Should we feel a need to become friends with klansmen to prove that we are open minded? And if not, then how do you draw the line? If there are people who find your own opinion abhorrent or othering or whatever and wish not to associate or discuss with you, by what authority are they wrong? Do you personally feel the need to debate every opinion you hear? How many times should you defend your own opinion before it becoming acceptable not to want to discuss it again? And just to engage a little bit with your particular opinion, I for one am immediately suspicious of any argument that says "non-sexual non-violent behavior X is acceptable, but not around children". Of course, I am open to the idea that in principle you may have some compelling arguments that I haven't heard before. However, I don't think it's very likely, so my prior would be that you are indeed not very trans friendly. If I were trans, I would be quite inclined to avoid you because of that, and very disinclined to debate this particular point with you in any setting where a more hostile discussion might reflect poorly on me (say, in the workplace). I don't think this reasoning is overly emotional or thought-ending. It's a rational way to respond to speech that may become confrontational.

roody15 4y ago
Identity formation is an complex and fascinating subject in human development. As an educator and father of three can also chime in with my own personal experience. I believe that many (if not most) people do not have a fully formed identity around gender or around sexuality by the age of 15-16. So asking questions to this group on whether they identity as this or that may actually cause some psychological harm because they are still in the process of forming an identity on multiple fronts. Imagine being a 15 year young women just out of middle school. You are extremely uncomfortable with you’re body, appearance and just now discovering things of a sexual nature. This period is difficult for many regardless of sexual orientation or gender. Now imagine going into your freshman english class and the first question asked by your teacher is introduce yourself and your preferred pronoun. This may seem progressive and tolerant but consider it may also be harmful to minors at this stage of development. Now as an adult if you feel you may have gender dysmorphia and start to identify as a deferent gender than birth .. by all means. In this case I am fully supportive and want people to feel comfortable and find happiness, I also believe we live in a mostly free society so as an adult this is absolutely within your rights. If you read this far I thank you and am fine is you disagree. Just my thought is my perspective (and many others) as a father of three girls and educator for 20 years should allow for some nuisance in discussion. My issue is not wether you and I agree on this topic as I assume you have your own valid perspective and experience .. my issue is that this topic is put off limits in many cases and it’s an all or nothing acceptance on supporting trans rights and what that entails.

Spivak 4y ago

Where it gets complicated is dealing with dog whistles. Because you’re not actually expressing an opinion that liberals disagree with. No one wants a kid who expresses some gender nonconformity to be pressured into identifying as trans or transitioning. The liberal position is and always has been such things should be made available to everyone with appropriate medical and psychiatric supervision. But in our shirty new world online discourse the game is now to say something that is obviously true “kids shouldn’t be forced to transition” but then actually mean something else “kids shouldn’t be allowed to transition” and then introduce legislation to that effect. So if you go on the internet and say these kinds of things that no one really disagrees with like it’s a hot take then people pick up pretty fast what you mean. The people caught it the crossfire are unfortunately those folks who actually hold the literal opinion that got appropriated because bigots realized it they could use it as a whistle.

nailer 4y ago
[flagged]
- Spivak 4y ago
  Transitioning != Surgery You have to be 18 for GRS or 16 if you have very very long standing documented history of debilitating dysphoria. It is the same for top surgery and any other cosmetic procedures. HRT isn’t until puberty. Kids transitioning is name, pronouns, clothes, and where they stand in boy girl boy girl lines at school. I swear ever time I talk to people about these issues at events or whatever people will go on long rants and end with me being like yep, not only go I agree but that’s how it currently works. Like the accommodation that trans kids/teens want with locker rooms is single person stalls so they don’t have to change in front of their classmates or awkwardly maneuver around a toilet but the rhetoric you see is completely opposite of that. Genuinely, I am sorry and what or whoever made you feel like you were bigoted or transphobic for basically agreeing with WPATH standards.
  - nailer 4y ago
    [flagged]

omgomgomgomg 4y ago

I agree with you, same for religion imposed on kids, it plain brainwashing. Religion has a few good things like the ten commandments at least, though. Pushing gender identity on teenagers who do not even know how to urinate in a straight line and had no sexual intercourse yet is just plain wrong, always will be.The teens do not come up with these things themselves usually its often an external influence by highly irresponsible people pushing theit agenda. To me this is more controversial than the abortion issue. And thats right, I will openly oppose anyone who claims otherwise and I will certainly not die on any hill defending that. I can agree to disagree and that is that. All these who did the gender changes recently appear to be still unhappy and frustrated. Show me the success stories. This is nothing new by the way, there have been a number of thai boys for example undergoing hormone therapy and gender change more than 25 years ago, they often would work in prostitution. The difference is, they perhaps liked the idea and did it for sexualbor monetary reasons and came up with the idea independently, not via social media.

jancsika 4y ago

> Any deviation from a strict all or nothing approach is silenced through bullying and harassment. I don't agree, so let's test my hypothesis right here! I come armed only with a single, short article about trans desistance that was aimed a general audience, let's have a short but real discussion. Before that I was tabula rasa. IIRC the researcher Thomas Steensma quoted in the piece produced both of these results in the same set of published papers: 1. There is a high likelihood that some number of patients in his clinic will no longer identify as trans when they are older 2. There is a set of predictors which can be used to help identify minors in his clinic who will persist as trans when they are older Reading between the lines, it also appears this is one of the more conservative researchers-- i.e., his clinic waits to socially transition kids longer than other clinics do. Even so, what I read is that a) the guidelines for diagnosing gender dysphoria have become more stringent/accurate over the past few decades, and b) more research will reveal more predictors for persistence. Given that, your position at the very least is under-specified. You could be saying that you favor waiting to do social transitioning per this clinician's guidelines. Or, you could be arguing that you want the predictors and indicators fleshed out more before you'd be comfortable with the kinds of treatments these clinics provide. Or, you could mean that you reject (out of hand or otherwise) the research on these predictors and/or the accompanying body of research. All of those positions invite differing qualities of argumentation. And again, I've only read a single article here, so you may very well be privy to knowledge that would sway me in a different direction. But unless that single article was complete bunk, it appears that both the diagnosis of and treatment for gender dysphoria has improved over the past few decades, and that at least a part of the treatment is social transition where the costs and benefits of those who persist and desist need to be weighed. With my incredibly small amount of knowledge in this area, zero of this particular treatment option for everyone who is a minor certainly seems excessive. If that is indeed your position, then what is the evidence for it and why aren't experts in the field taking that evidence into account? In any case, I believe I have fulfilled the requirements for at least a single anecdatum that shows lack of bullying/harassment for your stated position. [1]: https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-research-on-desistance-in-transgender-youth https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-re...

trieste92 4y ago

renewiltord 4y ago

People are allowed to call you bigot or hater. That's freedom of speech. Even if you disagree with it.

UncleMeat 4y ago

> The problem here is you may agree or not agree but the point I am making is just my view on this equals bigot / hater Yes, some beliefs are inherently bigoted and hateful. The people holding those beliefs often don't see it that way. Slaveowners often thought they were doing the right thing for black people. I see no reason why presenting your beliefs about trans people in a kind way should make your beliefs land any softer. I see no reason to discuss these beliefs with you, as they bring nothing new to the table that has not been discussed before.