6 ms·

As a non-American, the whole thing seems crazy to me. It seems like Trump said it from the start, and the media negated him based on political views, not facts

by snird 4y ago

As a non-American, the whole thing seems crazy to me. It seems like Trump said it from the start, and the media negated him based on political views, not facts. And now, only years later, there is a reconciliation with the facts. Now, I'm not that aware of the politics or the media in the US. But I think the way I see it may be the way many others saw this story roll. Whether or not it's true - it is a big reason that many people don't trust the media. And this may be the bigger story for us all going forward.

323 4y ago
> the media negated him based on political views No, the media negated it because all the notable scientists and publications (Nature, Lancet, ..) said it was a crazy conspiracy theory.
- locustous 4y ago
  And all those with different opinions were cancelled... Doctors quickly learned to tow the line or you lost your job and license while the masses cheered. Hard to find "valid dissent" when you punish and disqualify everyone who tries.
  - Zetice 4y ago
    And yet, these people seemed to have conducted their research without trouble. Weird, how approaching a problem scientifically and not bombastically elicits a more measured response...
    - locustous 4y ago
      I don't understand "these people", your response is somewhat ambiguous. If you are referring to skeptics... Then I find your conclusion inaccurate. The response is not "measured". Shunned and ridiculed is what I have mostly observed. Society generally had adopted intolerance and seeks to punish detractors. Both sides are doing this. Again, this is not... measured...
      - Zetice 4y ago
        These people who conducted the research in the article, the employees of the DoE, were not shunned or ridiculed. The only people getting shunned and ridiculed are the people who approached the issue unscientifically.
        locustous 4y ago
        If only that were actually true.
        Zetice 4y ago
        It... is? Name one DoE employee who conducted this research who ended up losing their job.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  The fact that these science journals needlessly weighed in on something not falsifiable says more about the journals than anything.
belltaco 4y ago
Trump said that not because he had some particular insight, but it was just a way to deflect blame, and that's why it was super amplified across the right wing, but lacking any sort of evidence or proof. Also back then there was a strong suggestion that it was bioengineered at Wuhan on purpose to tank the western economies. Note that he also said covid wasn't a serious thing several times. If that's the case even if there was a lab leak it wasn't a big deal? Note that both of those were to benefit his administration and deflect blame from his admin's response in Feb 2020 to not take covid seriously.
- snird 4y ago
  This sounds reasonable. I'm not that into US politics and media, so it makes sense I got this "rough" image from social media. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. It will lead to more people losing trust in the media and flocking into extreme social media silos. The problem is still here, even if the cause of the problem makes no sense.
- trappist 4y ago
  Trump was a stopped clock on this. I don't think that's paren't point. The point, to me, is that the entire establishment treated the lab leak hypothesis as misinformation for no better reason than that Trump had endorsed it. That is, on no better evidence. And then aggressively censored it.
  - belltaco 4y ago
    >The point, to me, is that the entire establishment And the Energy Department that the sole source behind this story isn't part of the so called establishment? Especially under the Biden admin which people who use words like 'the establishment' and 'deep state' consider the establishment. Looks like 'the establishment' wants to blame China now, hence the story must be fake and there was no lab leak? Where is actual evidence of the lab leak?
CurtHagenlocher 4y ago
My impression is that Trump started calling it the "China virus" and then there was an increase in physical attacks on people of Asian-appearing ancestry in the United States and that's when and why the pushback started.
Centigonal 4y ago
When Trump made accusations of a lab leak, there were few facts pointing to that conclusion. Furthermore, the statements he made were dangerous to Asian Americans in the US. Later, as more facts came to light, the lab-leak theory became more plausible. Guessing right in the absence of evidence shouldn't grant a person any kind of vindication in retrospect
- corbulo 4y ago
  Where do you people get briefed? The guy was fucking President
  - Centigonal 4y ago
    As president, the guy said a lot of things that were outright untrue [1]. By 2020, he had lost any expectation of credulity just on the virtue of his being president in my eyes, and in those of many other Americans. Now, if he had claimed the virus originated as a Chinese lab leak, and the intelligence community came out supporting that contribution, then that would have been a different story. Information from these sources didn't start becoming public until 2021, and was still mixed at that point[2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-fa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/politics/covid-origin-lab-leak.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/politics/covid-origin-...
    - corbulo 4y ago
      Not everything a politician said was true, therefore if you read NYT and WaPo you're more well informed than the President. Amazing.
      - vore 4y ago
        [flagged]
  - Zetice 4y ago
Paradigma11 4y ago
Trump presented it as an intentional biological attack from China. This is why everyone was running as fast as possible from "lab leak". Nobody wanted to add WW3 to our problems with an unknown pandemic looming at the horizon.
giantrobot 4y ago
> It seems like Trump said it from the start, and the media negated him based on political views, not facts. Trump's insinuations were that the virus was engineered as a bioweapon and intentionally leaked from the lab in Wuhan. This is not the same as the virus being studied in the lab and leaking. Just because the statements involved the work "leak" doesn't make them equivalent.

by snird 4y ago

323 4y ago

> the media negated him based on political views No, the media negated it because all the notable scientists and publications (Nature, Lancet, ..) said it was a crazy conspiracy theory.

locustous 4y ago
And all those with different opinions were cancelled... Doctors quickly learned to tow the line or you lost your job and license while the masses cheered. Hard to find "valid dissent" when you punish and disqualify everyone who tries.
- Zetice 4y ago
  And yet, these people seemed to have conducted their research without trouble. Weird, how approaching a problem scientifically and not bombastically elicits a more measured response...
  - locustous 4y ago
    I don't understand "these people", your response is somewhat ambiguous. If you are referring to skeptics... Then I find your conclusion inaccurate. The response is not "measured". Shunned and ridiculed is what I have mostly observed. Society generally had adopted intolerance and seeks to punish detractors. Both sides are doing this. Again, this is not... measured...
    - Zetice 4y ago
      These people who conducted the research in the article, the employees of the DoE, were not shunned or ridiculed. The only people getting shunned and ridiculed are the people who approached the issue unscientifically.
      - locustous 4y ago
        If only that were actually true.
        Zetice 4y ago
        It... is? Name one DoE employee who conducted this research who ended up losing their job.
friend_and_foe 4y ago
The fact that these science journals needlessly weighed in on something not falsifiable says more about the journals than anything.

belltaco 4y ago

Trump said that not because he had some particular insight, but it was just a way to deflect blame, and that's why it was super amplified across the right wing, but lacking any sort of evidence or proof. Also back then there was a strong suggestion that it was bioengineered at Wuhan on purpose to tank the western economies. Note that he also said covid wasn't a serious thing several times. If that's the case even if there was a lab leak it wasn't a big deal? Note that both of those were to benefit his administration and deflect blame from his admin's response in Feb 2020 to not take covid seriously.

snird 4y ago
This sounds reasonable. I'm not that into US politics and media, so it makes sense I got this "rough" image from social media. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. It will lead to more people losing trust in the media and flocking into extreme social media silos. The problem is still here, even if the cause of the problem makes no sense.
trappist 4y ago
Trump was a stopped clock on this. I don't think that's paren't point. The point, to me, is that the entire establishment treated the lab leak hypothesis as misinformation for no better reason than that Trump had endorsed it. That is, on no better evidence. And then aggressively censored it.
- belltaco 4y ago
  >The point, to me, is that the entire establishment And the Energy Department that the sole source behind this story isn't part of the so called establishment? Especially under the Biden admin which people who use words like 'the establishment' and 'deep state' consider the establishment. Looks like 'the establishment' wants to blame China now, hence the story must be fake and there was no lab leak? Where is actual evidence of the lab leak?

CurtHagenlocher 4y ago

My impression is that Trump started calling it the "China virus" and then there was an increase in physical attacks on people of Asian-appearing ancestry in the United States and that's when and why the pushback started.

Centigonal 4y ago

When Trump made accusations of a lab leak, there were few facts pointing to that conclusion. Furthermore, the statements he made were dangerous to Asian Americans in the US. Later, as more facts came to light, the lab-leak theory became more plausible. Guessing right in the absence of evidence shouldn't grant a person any kind of vindication in retrospect

corbulo 4y ago
Where do you people get briefed? The guy was fucking President
- Centigonal 4y ago
  As president, the guy said a lot of things that were outright untrue [1]. By 2020, he had lost any expectation of credulity just on the virtue of his being president in my eyes, and in those of many other Americans. Now, if he had claimed the virus originated as a Chinese lab leak, and the intelligence community came out supporting that contribution, then that would have been a different story. Information from these sources didn't start becoming public until 2021, and was still mixed at that point[2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-fa... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/politics/covid-origin-lab-leak.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/politics/covid-origin-...
  - corbulo 4y ago
    Not everything a politician said was true, therefore if you read NYT and WaPo you're more well informed than the President. Amazing.
    - vore 4y ago
      [flagged]
- Zetice 4y ago

Paradigma11 4y ago

Trump presented it as an intentional biological attack from China. This is why everyone was running as fast as possible from "lab leak". Nobody wanted to add WW3 to our problems with an unknown pandemic looming at the horizon.

giantrobot 4y ago

> It seems like Trump said it from the start, and the media negated him based on political views, not facts. Trump's insinuations were that the virus was engineered as a bioweapon and intentionally leaked from the lab in Wuhan. This is not the same as the virus being studied in the lab and leaking. Just because the statements involved the work "leak" doesn't make them equivalent.