5 ms·

Bovine meat and milk protein in tumor‐free mucosa of colorectal cancer patients

69 points by deneb84 4y ago

CommanderData 4y ago
> BMMFs have been proposed as zoonotic infectious agents and drivers of indirect carcinogenesis of CRC, inducing chronic tissue inflammation, radical formation and increased levels of DNA damage. There's also a strong relationship between BMMFs and Osteoporosis, which also is linked with hearing loss.
xwdv 4y ago
[flagged]
- mjfl 4y ago
  > Albeit not reaching statistical significance
paulpauper 4y ago
wow...this can def. explain the uptick in colon cancer, especially in young people.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Well it looks a bit weird to me. Maybe due to increased consumption of beef, surely, but not sure if milk consumption has gone up Though I'm very surprised at the mechanism, that was totally news to me
- yeeetz 4y ago
  While late diagnosis of Stage III/IV CRC in young adults is tragic, both incidence and death rate of colon cancer has fallen in recent years in the U.S. as early detection (more colonoscopies) and proactive removal of pre-cancerous polyps has increased.
tptacek 4y ago
Does this square epidemiologically with beef consumption? The countries with the highest beef consumption are in South America (and it's sharply more beef consumption); the countries with the highest colon cancer rates are in central and northern Europe. It doesn't follow from a correlation that beef is by itself causative; it can be, for instance, beef plus some other X-factor. Somebody is going to point out that South American cattle are grass fed, but European cattle are also more grass fed than American cattle, and yet they still top the leaderboard.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Heavy use of antibiotics? Edit: perhaps not > It is estimated that livestock alone uses 50-80% of the total antibiotics produced in most of the developed countries. China, Brazil, and the United States are the largest consumers of antimicrobials in livestock production. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7896880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7896880/ (Antimicrobial uses for livestock production in developing countries) An alternative approach would be to sequence the DNA of those who have had this cancer to see if they have a predisposition to this cancer on certain diets due to a specific set of genes.
- curiousgal 4y ago
  Beef without fibre?
  - code_duck 4y ago
    Lack of fiber is already a known factor in colorectal cancer, isn't it?
    - steponlego 4y ago
      Is it? I heard that was pop science.
      - Alcor 4y ago
        No that's poop science! On a serious note though, seems still undecided but leaning more heavily towards no protective effects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357054/
largbae 4y ago
So if I understand right, we know that those with colorectal cancer have suspiciously correlated proteins, which could be used for a better screen for this cancer. But do we know that consuming cow always causes this cancer? If not, what's next?
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
  Yes, we know at this time that consuming cow does not always cause colorectal cancer.
pphysch 4y ago
From an uninformed intuitive perspective, it would make sense that a substance developed to provide nutrients to rapidly growing babies could cause abnormal growth (tumors) in mature individuals. Same logic applies to artificial growth hormones, which are applied to livestock.
stefantalpalaru 4y ago
[dead]
zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
[flagged]
californiadreem 4y ago
I think a meaningful question to ask is what other foods are also packaged in plastic or plasticized-paper that require anoxic environments for food safety purposes? These will be raw animal products like seafood, poultry, cheese, or ready-to-eat cooked-in-plastic meals. We already have at least one study that points towards ultraprocessed food consumption as increasing the risk of specifically ovarian cancer by 30%. I wouldn't be surprised to find colorectal cancer rates similarly increased with their consumption. It'd be interesting to see a metastudy on whether dietary-associated cancers, endocrine disruption, and lower testosterone are correlated with industrial single-plastic packaging for majority-consumed foodstuffs.
- azinman2 4y ago
  My guess is, assuming to genetic predisposition, colorectal cancer is far more tied to diet than plastic (which is likely non-region specific). Things like complex fiber, the right micro biome, etc.
  - californiadreem 4y ago
    "What makes the increase particularly mysterious is the fact that the overall incidence of colorectal cancer has dropped by 45% since the mid-1980s. While the cancer is still most frequently diagnosed in people over 55, the study found that patients younger than 55 were 58% more likely to be diagnosed with advanced disease." If the cause were beef and milk consumption as such, it seems unlikely that a severe shift like this would occur. To me, it's far more likely to be something like crop dessication for grains--they started soaking cereal crops in glyphosate prior to harvest and suddenly this category of food that sustained the planet for millennia suddenly starts causing broad spectrum inflammation that people blame on the crop and not the processes and adjuncts. I smell a Bayer, Nestlé, DuPont, J&J, Pfizer, Monsanto, etc-style hidden externality at work rather than animal husbandry. Like, what are the colorectal cancer rates for those people that actively practice transhumance? Do they differ significantly despite predominantly animal-product and dairy-based diets?
    - azinman2 4y ago
viksit 4y ago
could someone please ELI5? lots of conflicting terms here and i’m not sure what to take away.
- sinuhe69 4y ago
  There is the same molecule, found in bovine milk/meat and in the mucosa of colon cancer patients. The study aims to find the correlation between these molecules and colon cancer in humans. The authors suggested there is a causal link between consumption of bovine products and colon cancer but other studies are not conclusive about these matters.
  - viksit 4y ago
    thank you, very helpful!
tsol 4y ago
"Bovine meat and milk factors (BMMFs) are episomal, plasmid-like DNA molecules isolated from bovine sera and milk products and from the peritumor of colorectal cancer CRC patients [[1-6]]. BMMFs were proposed as zoonotic infectious agents and risk factors involved in indirect cancerogenesis of several types of cancer including CRC [[7-10]]. Our studies specifically focus on a link between BMMF and colorectal cancer and are supported by an epidemiological association between global consumption of bovine (red) meat and dairy products and colorectal cancer incidence"
Madmallard 4y ago
It’s fiber. High red meat no fiber bad news. Brazil eats tons of steak but also tons of beans and plantains.
dawatchusay 4y ago
This is the WORST summary title of a post I’ve ever seen. The wording implies actually the opposite of the article; it implies to those without deep knowledge of the topic that bovine and milk proteins are associated with remission. The full title of the research states that those things interfere with patient survival. Instead, reading only the title first, I think “oh, tumor-free! Great!”
pengaru 4y ago
Weird not to see HPV even mentioned anywhere as one of the CRC risks they accounted for.

69 points by deneb84 4y ago

> BMMFs have been proposed as zoonotic infectious agents and drivers of indirect carcinogenesis of CRC, inducing chronic tissue inflammation, radical formation and increased levels of DNA damage. There's also a strong relationship between BMMFs and Osteoporosis, which also is linked with hearing loss.

xwdv 4y ago

[flagged]

mjfl 4y ago
> Albeit not reaching statistical significance

paulpauper 4y ago

wow...this can def. explain the uptick in colon cancer, especially in young people.

raverbashing 4y ago
Well it looks a bit weird to me. Maybe due to increased consumption of beef, surely, but not sure if milk consumption has gone up Though I'm very surprised at the mechanism, that was totally news to me
yeeetz 4y ago
While late diagnosis of Stage III/IV CRC in young adults is tragic, both incidence and death rate of colon cancer has fallen in recent years in the U.S. as early detection (more colonoscopies) and proactive removal of pre-cancerous polyps has increased.

tptacek 4y ago

Does this square epidemiologically with beef consumption? The countries with the highest beef consumption are in South America (and it's sharply more beef consumption); the countries with the highest colon cancer rates are in central and northern Europe. It doesn't follow from a correlation that beef is by itself causative; it can be, for instance, beef plus some other X-factor. Somebody is going to point out that South American cattle are grass fed, but European cattle are also more grass fed than American cattle, and yet they still top the leaderboard.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Heavy use of antibiotics? Edit: perhaps not > It is estimated that livestock alone uses 50-80% of the total antibiotics produced in most of the developed countries. China, Brazil, and the United States are the largest consumers of antimicrobials in livestock production. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7896880/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7896880/ (Antimicrobial uses for livestock production in developing countries) An alternative approach would be to sequence the DNA of those who have had this cancer to see if they have a predisposition to this cancer on certain diets due to a specific set of genes.
curiousgal 4y ago
Beef without fibre?
- code_duck 4y ago
  Lack of fiber is already a known factor in colorectal cancer, isn't it?
  - steponlego 4y ago
    Is it? I heard that was pop science.
    - Alcor 4y ago
      No that's poop science! On a serious note though, seems still undecided but leaning more heavily towards no protective effects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357054/

largbae 4y ago

So if I understand right, we know that those with colorectal cancer have suspiciously correlated proteins, which could be used for a better screen for this cancer. But do we know that consuming cow always causes this cancer? If not, what's next?

CodeWriter23 4y ago
Yes, we know at this time that consuming cow does not always cause colorectal cancer.

pphysch 4y ago

From an uninformed intuitive perspective, it would make sense that a substance developed to provide nutrients to rapidly growing babies could cause abnormal growth (tumors) in mature individuals. Same logic applies to artificial growth hormones, which are applied to livestock.

stefantalpalaru 4y ago

[dead]

zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago

[flagged]

californiadreem 4y ago

I think a meaningful question to ask is what other foods are also packaged in plastic or plasticized-paper that require anoxic environments for food safety purposes? These will be raw animal products like seafood, poultry, cheese, or ready-to-eat cooked-in-plastic meals. We already have at least one study that points towards ultraprocessed food consumption as increasing the risk of specifically ovarian cancer by 30%. I wouldn't be surprised to find colorectal cancer rates similarly increased with their consumption. It'd be interesting to see a metastudy on whether dietary-associated cancers, endocrine disruption, and lower testosterone are correlated with industrial single-plastic packaging for majority-consumed foodstuffs.

azinman2 4y ago
My guess is, assuming to genetic predisposition, colorectal cancer is far more tied to diet than plastic (which is likely non-region specific). Things like complex fiber, the right micro biome, etc.
- californiadreem 4y ago
  "What makes the increase particularly mysterious is the fact that the overall incidence of colorectal cancer has dropped by 45% since the mid-1980s. While the cancer is still most frequently diagnosed in people over 55, the study found that patients younger than 55 were 58% more likely to be diagnosed with advanced disease." If the cause were beef and milk consumption as such, it seems unlikely that a severe shift like this would occur. To me, it's far more likely to be something like crop dessication for grains--they started soaking cereal crops in glyphosate prior to harvest and suddenly this category of food that sustained the planet for millennia suddenly starts causing broad spectrum inflammation that people blame on the crop and not the processes and adjuncts. I smell a Bayer, Nestlé, DuPont, J&J, Pfizer, Monsanto, etc-style hidden externality at work rather than animal husbandry. Like, what are the colorectal cancer rates for those people that actively practice transhumance? Do they differ significantly despite predominantly animal-product and dairy-based diets?
  - azinman2 4y ago

viksit 4y ago

could someone please ELI5? lots of conflicting terms here and i’m not sure what to take away.

sinuhe69 4y ago
There is the same molecule, found in bovine milk/meat and in the mucosa of colon cancer patients. The study aims to find the correlation between these molecules and colon cancer in humans. The authors suggested there is a causal link between consumption of bovine products and colon cancer but other studies are not conclusive about these matters.
- viksit 4y ago
  thank you, very helpful!

tsol 4y ago

"Bovine meat and milk factors (BMMFs) are episomal, plasmid-like DNA molecules isolated from bovine sera and milk products and from the peritumor of colorectal cancer CRC patients [[1-6]]. BMMFs were proposed as zoonotic infectious agents and risk factors involved in indirect cancerogenesis of several types of cancer including CRC [[7-10]]. Our studies specifically focus on a link between BMMF and colorectal cancer and are supported by an epidemiological association between global consumption of bovine (red) meat and dairy products and colorectal cancer incidence"

Madmallard 4y ago

It’s fiber. High red meat no fiber bad news. Brazil eats tons of steak but also tons of beans and plantains.

dawatchusay 4y ago

This is the WORST summary title of a post I’ve ever seen. The wording implies actually the opposite of the article; it implies to those without deep knowledge of the topic that bovine and milk proteins are associated with remission. The full title of the research states that those things interfere with patient survival. Instead, reading only the title first, I think “oh, tumor-free! Great!”

pengaru 4y ago

Weird not to see HPV even mentioned anywhere as one of the CRC risks they accounted for.