7 ms·

I get very little REM sleep because I smoke weed every day. I think it's not good for me, so I'll be interested to read this article.

Rewrap3643 4y ago
I don't think we know enough about it, other than to say, "sleep is important and disrupting it should be minimized." There's a medication called trazodone which is used off-label for people with issues falling or staying asleep. It increases the total percentage of time spent in slow-wave sleep (stage 3). Even though this comes at the expense of REM, in elderly people with cognitive or neurodegenerative issues, this appears to confer a protective benefit (the rate of deterioration is slowed comparatively). That said, it would probably be ideal if they slept well without medication and altered sleep architectures.
ravishi 4y ago
I often wonder if that's the key to why I feel different whenever I'm able to quit weed for a while. It doesn't help to just limit usage and dosage, it still affects my REM sleep.
PopAlongKid 4y ago
The article makes no mention of the effects of THC consumption on sleep. Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. If you quit weed, how will you measure whether there is any increase in REM sleep?
- ChatGTP 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I love traveling to places where weed is legal so I can get high and almost immediately cure jetlag. I also have great vivid dreams when high so, yeah I'd also be interested to see some more information too.
  - ecommerceguy 4y ago
    Wow, how was that sn not taken as of today?
    - ecommerceguy 4y ago
      I don't see any reason as to why this was downvoted. The username ChatGPT's first activity was this day, and thus colored green hence my very valid comment. Perhaps prior to downvote access, a user should be educated and quizzed.
  - tzs 4y ago
    I'm curious now...how does it work legally if you really baked in a jurisdiction where weed is legal, immediately fly to a place where weed is not legal, and are still baked when you arrive?
    - bawolff 4y ago
      I think in most places it is possesion of the substance that is illegal, not the state of being intixicated. Or if you're sufficiently intoxicated to cause a problem, it doesn't matter if weed is legal, you are still in trouble.
      - chitowneats 4y ago
        WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS Correct. In the U.S., you can report to a police officer that, "yeah man, I'm high out my mind. Stoned as fuck, bro." As long as you aren't driving or causing a disturbance, they legally can't do anything other than search your person for the substance. WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS
      - kkielhofner 4y ago
        Word of caution - this does not apply to countries with the most severe drug laws and associated punishments. There have been cases in UAE and especially Singapore[0] where travelers are drug tested on arrival and the presence of banned substances in blood or other bodily fluids is against the law. [0] - https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/saliva-test-drugs-roadblocks-land-checkpoints-changi-airport-3303071 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/saliva-test-drugs-...
- ravishi 4y ago
  I measure it with a Mi Band. It might not be the most precise measuring method, but I feel like I'm able to correlate "better sleep" shown in the app with "better mood" or "feeling better" the day after. And quitting weed does improve both of those measures. Of course I was not able to notice this when I was younger. Only now at 32 and a family these measurements are starting to actually be noticeable.
  - tzs 4y ago
    > I feel like I'm able to correlate "better sleep" shown in the app with "better mood" or "feeling better" the day after If you look at the app and see that it says "better sleep" before starting the day and then notice that you had a good mood or felt better after that could be a placebo effect. You could check that by not looking at the app until after your day is done and you have noted if you had a good mood or felt better. If the app and your day's mood still correlate then it probably is something real. On the other hand checking if it is real risks making it no longer work, and a good mood is a good mood even if it was caused by a placebo. I'm not sure I'd check.
    - wizzwizz4 4y ago
      > On the other hand checking if it is real risks making it no longer work, The placebo effect doesn't go away if you know it's a placebo: if it's worked in the past because you thought it did, it will continue to work if you think it will. https://xkcd.com/1526/ https://xkcd.com/1526/
      - toast0 4y ago
        If you doubt its effectiveness because you know it's placebo, it might not work anymore. Especially if you're wondering all day if you're in a good mood or not.
        wizzwizz4 4y ago
        So... don't do that? If it worked before, but it doesn't work in theory, it works. It might not even be placebo! Perhaps the combination of (well rested) + (optimistic) means you have a good day, and the experiment changes those conditions enough that you get different results. Heck, you might end up having better days more often. You never know if you don't try.
- ProAm 4y ago
  There have been studies on it. Whether its harmful or not I do not know. [1] "To address this question, Feinberg, et al. (1975) compared the sleep patterns of experienced marijuana users on tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and a placebo. Feinberg, et al. (1975) reported reduced eye movement activity and less REM sleep in the THC condition. They also reported a REM rebound effect, which is more REM activity, on withdrawal from THC. So, there exists some scientific evidence that marijuana interferes with REM sleep." [1] [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-teenage-mind/200906/marijuana-sleep-and-dreams https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-teenage-mind/200...
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    “How do you measure how it effects you?” “Somebody dosed four people for a couple weeks, 50 years ago, and wrote about it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/164314/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/164314/ “ Studies don’t tell you facts about your own experience, especially weak studies. Studies only tell you about statistical patterns in whatever population they represent. Here, the study is so poor that it doesn’t actually say anything reliable at all. Check your references, folks!
    - ProAm 4y ago
      > Studies don’t tell you facts about your own experience I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Personal experience not based in science is something that should never be regarded as factual or can be broadly attributed to others biological effects. This is just one study. There have been others, but enjoy your experience.
      - swatcoder 4y ago
        If you think that promoting scientific literacy is anti-science, we’re in trouble!
- canes123456 4y ago
  Pretty much every sedative, ambian, alcohol, etc, will decrease REM sleep and increase deep sleep. I have no idea about THC but assume the effect is similar.
- neom 4y ago
  I smoked weed every day for 10 years and basically forgot what dreaming was, people would tell me about their dreams and I thought they're nuts... I presumed I must be dreaming but I just didn't remember it, but the idea people could remember these extreme vivid crazy dreams they could control seemed totally foreign to me. I moved to a country where weed was very illegal and stopped smoking it, after about 5 months of no weed I started to have the most insane, crazy cool, very very vivid dreams. Then I moved back to Canada for a year and started to toke, again, I almost immediately stopped dreaming. When I left Canada again, and stopped weed again, dreams came back again. My personal very unscientific hypothesis is that I process a lot more of that emotional/thoughtful stuff when I'm awake and stoned, but honestly, who knows.. I find it somewhat concerning to be honest, the difference in my dreaming on and off weed is markedly very stark.
  - enraged_camel 4y ago
    Can confirm. I visited another galaxy last night. It was wild.
  - ABeeSea 4y ago
    I almost wanted to start smoking again after I quit just to stop dreaming. Quit 3 years ago and the dreams are just so vivid and intense versus the dreamless sleep when I was smoking.
    - neom 4y ago
      I can totally relate, I actually really don't enjoy the intense dreaming either. I find it overwhelming and uncomfortable and much prefer my dreamless sleeping. That being said, I also accept there is evidence that dreaming is important for your health. I don't particularly enjoy having to go pee throughout the day either, but if I stopped doing it, I'd be pretty concerned for my health.
  - ProllyInfamous 4y ago
    "Dreaming helps you to forget." — Francis Crick Good luck on your continued journey. G.Maté's "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" was very helpful for me, in moving past some childhood trauma.
- wafflemaker 4y ago
  How I tell of increase in REM sleep (x): 1. Remembering some dreams in the morning. Especially that I dreamt right before waking up. 2. Calmer mood, less jittery, harder to irritate. 3. Easier to maintain focus on things that are not fun, easier to resist distractions. How I tell the level of cannabinoids/alcohol in the body fell enough to allow good sleep with both deep and REM phases: - The first night you sleep with a proper REM phase you get a REM sleep rebound. It's characterized by lot of vivid, intense, often rare dreams. Easy to notice after a period in which you pretty much don't remember any dreams. Happens because there is much pressure in the body to catch up for lost REM sleep, but rebounds are not enough to catch up. The sad and deeply diabolical thing about cannabis is that it's half time in body is quite long (though adapted bodies metabolize it faster), so smoking/consuming chronicly (defined in Huberman Lab as 2 times per week or more often) is enough to pretty much completely rob you of REM sleep. You can't remember any dreams and even worse, you loose your everyday free emotional therapist that is REM sleep. If you add some other negative experiences or just a difficult period in life, you're in for depression or at least sad/tired/boring days. And what you might escape into in these days? Often more weed. x: anecdotal, most likely influenced by huberman lab's episodes on marijuana and on sleep. They describe what roles both deep sleep and REM sleep perform. Episode on weed is a must - listen for people consuming cannabis in any form, even sporadically, because lot of things around cannabis are counter intuitive (f.ex. that it doesn't help with sleep). If you thing problems with sleep affect you or that your sleep quality suffers because of drug (including alcohol) use, consider listening to these Huberman Lab episodes or talking to a specialist if that's available to you.
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Hey thanks for the plug, I listened to a few of his show and liked it a few years ago. I go with 2 months cycle with THC. On and then off. Toward the end of the ON period I can’t stand weed anymore and I’m often grumpy as fuck. Then I rediscover it 2 month later and it’s great. Yah. Not great. Going to listen to that now.
- coldtea 4y ago
  >Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. Sleep well, or "sleep enough hours"/"don't have insomnia"? Because sleeping well and REM sleep can't be deduced from the latter, it needs to be measured. Not even self-reporting is enough - because chronic bad sleep becomes the baseline, so people used it to just consider their mental clarity/energy levels when they wake up normal (like a person with shortsightedness, who doesn't know he has it -- they're then suprised when they finally get glasses and see that, no, it wasn't normal actually).
  - dustymcp 4y ago
    Anecdotally i learned stopping a few hours before sleep gives a way better sleep that night, but many smoke weed to fall asleep which is sort of counter productive..
- Synaesthesia 4y ago
  I sleep well at night. My watch tells me I don't get much REM sleep and I also don't dream a lot.
- filoleg 4y ago
  Not disagreeing with you overall, but I just wanted to add a bit of nuance to things you've mentioned. > Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. First, as far as I know, smoking weed would only affect your sleep if you consumed it a couple of hours or so before sleep (exact numbers vary per person, but you get the idea). If someone consumed some weed during lunch, I would expect theit nighttime sleep to be pretty much unaffected. Second, what do you mean by "sleep well"? They might fall asleep faster and stay asleep throughout the night. But how good was their sleep quality in reality? We are talking in terms of measuring REM cycle length and such. From anecdotal experience, I also thought that my sleep shortly after consuming was "good", as I would fall asleep easier. However, I can confirm that it wasn't high quality sleep at all for me, my REM cycle was very short, and I definitely noticed extra groginess after waking up (along with the rest of the things mentioned in sibling comments, like lack of dreams and such). Doing some more A/B testing on my sleep in regards to consumption of weed pretty much made it clear that it makes my sleep quality worse, but makes it easier to fall asleep.
ravenstine 4y ago
How do you know you get little REM sleep?
- dangwhy 4y ago
  no vivid dreams on weed. Actually, no dreams at all.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- haswell 4y ago
  Many fitness trackers will now show you this information, in addition to the lack of dreams as others have mentioned.
  - ravenstine 4y ago
    My question was specifically referring to how the OP knows their lack of dreams rather than generally speaking, but thanks for sharing info that might help someone reading this.
    - haswell 4y ago
      I see. In that case, it’s also worth mentioning that the impact of THC on REM sleep has been the subject of multiple studies, with strong evidence showing a link between THC usage and reduced or missing REM stages. So if someone has evidence that they are missing REM sleep (i.e. a tracker or a noted lack of dreams) and are also consuming THC, there are good reasons to suspect THC is the culprit over other possible causes.
rpastuszak 4y ago
Your cognitive skills and memory are likely improve if you take a break. I think this is related to the impact of THC/CBD/CBN on different sleep stages and their function wrt memory and processing information. It's likely that you'll experience a period of very vivid dreams and increased energy. It's good to put that energy into something that will get you tired (and sleepy!), e.g. sport.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  The hardest part about quitting weed for me was terrifying, vivid nightmares. Ironic considering how these "hallucinations" are an order of magnitude more powerful than any you would get from the drug itself. I relapsed several times because of this. But if you stick to quitting for long enough, that symptom will subside.
  - seszett 4y ago
    As far as I understand, these dreams are because your body is catching up for all the missing REM sleep your didn't have before. So you have a lot more REM sleep for a while because you need it, and REM sleep normally goes along with vivid dreams.
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    > The hardest part about quitting weed for me was terrifying, vivid nightmares. Am I like the only person that gets that on weed? I still dream most nights when using cannabis, and I have no idea why.
mason55 4y ago
I replaced drinking with weed for awhile but I noticed I wasn't feeling all that much better. Then I started tracking my sleep with an Apple Watch and found that with both alcohol and pot, the amount of deep sleep I get is super impacted. I'm sure it's not 100% scientific but it correlates well enough that I'm convinced. Even a couple drinks will knock me down to 15-45 minutes of deep sleep in a night, vs. 90+ that I get during the week. Once I stopped both alcohol & pot I found that I felt much better, the way I expected to feel after I quit drinking.
weedtoker2324 4y ago
[dead]
imdan 4y ago
I've found that, like alcohol and caffeine, limiting your weed intake directly before sleep seems to minimize the negative effects it has on the quality of sleep. Based on fitbit data and morning grogginess, over two to four hours before sleep seems to be a good window, but it definitely depends on the strength, quantity, and how you're consuming it. It wouldn't surprise me though if most of the negative associations with weed usage (laziness, lack of motivation, depression, etc.) are really just the results of a lack of REM sleep. It seems to be a pretty important process as far as I can tell.
kkielhofner 4y ago
This is the case for almost every drug/agent that has “sleep aid” properties. From Benadryl to Ambien and alcohol, marijuana, etc they help induce sleep (fall asleep faster) but generally the actual quality of sleep is worse. I always take pause when I hear people talk about the “benefit” of having a drink or using marijuana (typically “Indica strain”) before bed to help sleep. We’re all unique but generally I wonder how they would view their restfulness compared to ideal sleep strategies like diet, exercise, screen usage/stimulation, routine, etc.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  Melatonin presumably being the exception, right? Since it's the same sleep hormone you're producing naturally. (In reasonable doses anyway.)
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    I’m certainly not a doctor but I’ve heard varying reports on melatonin. While produced naturally it’s like anything else - we have receptors for everything from marijuana to heroin because our bodies produce similar molecules (endorphins for pain suppression during fight or flight, dopamine for reward systems, etc). So saying we “produce melatonin” doesn’t imply safety. From what little I’ve read and understand it does seem to be very individualized, dosage dependent, etc.
  - simplyluke 4y ago
    I’m far from an expert here, but I’ve noticed quite a few prominent scientists including Dr. Andrew Huberman recommending against frequent use of it, particularly in children. Part of the issue is label accuracy on supplements for it can be off by several orders of magnitude. https://hubermanlab.com/sleep-toolkit-tools-for-optimizing-sleep-and-sleep-wake-timing/ https://hubermanlab.com/sleep-toolkit-tools-for-optimizing-s...
- VirusNewbie 4y ago
  Interesting enough, I always wondered why it seemed like I slept better with alcohol, and getting a sleep tracker helped me understand: alcohol lowers REM sleep, but increases deep sleep. In my case, without alcohol I’m abundant in REM but lacking in deep sleep. So in my case, one drink improves my sleep quality! However I don’t think alcohol is healthy, so I don’t regularly imbibe, but it would be nice to find something healthy that would make that trade off for me.
bob_scratchit 4y ago
I know he’s become YouTube hype bros favorite source for click bait videos, but the Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman has some great podcast episodes about sleep and also how weed/alcohol greatly impact it. I found it really insightful in terms of how even moderate use of alcohol/weed can greatly impact sleep quality.

Rewrap3643 4y ago

I don't think we know enough about it, other than to say, "sleep is important and disrupting it should be minimized." There's a medication called trazodone which is used off-label for people with issues falling or staying asleep. It increases the total percentage of time spent in slow-wave sleep (stage 3). Even though this comes at the expense of REM, in elderly people with cognitive or neurodegenerative issues, this appears to confer a protective benefit (the rate of deterioration is slowed comparatively). That said, it would probably be ideal if they slept well without medication and altered sleep architectures.

ravishi 4y ago

I often wonder if that's the key to why I feel different whenever I'm able to quit weed for a while. It doesn't help to just limit usage and dosage, it still affects my REM sleep.

PopAlongKid 4y ago

The article makes no mention of the effects of THC consumption on sleep. Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. If you quit weed, how will you measure whether there is any increase in REM sleep?

ChatGTP 4y ago
Anecdotally, I love traveling to places where weed is legal so I can get high and almost immediately cure jetlag. I also have great vivid dreams when high so, yeah I'd also be interested to see some more information too.
- ecommerceguy 4y ago
  Wow, how was that sn not taken as of today?
  - ecommerceguy 4y ago
    I don't see any reason as to why this was downvoted. The username ChatGPT's first activity was this day, and thus colored green hence my very valid comment. Perhaps prior to downvote access, a user should be educated and quizzed.
- tzs 4y ago
  I'm curious now...how does it work legally if you really baked in a jurisdiction where weed is legal, immediately fly to a place where weed is not legal, and are still baked when you arrive?
  - bawolff 4y ago
    I think in most places it is possesion of the substance that is illegal, not the state of being intixicated. Or if you're sufficiently intoxicated to cause a problem, it doesn't matter if weed is legal, you are still in trouble.
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS Correct. In the U.S., you can report to a police officer that, "yeah man, I'm high out my mind. Stoned as fuck, bro." As long as you aren't driving or causing a disturbance, they legally can't do anything other than search your person for the substance. WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS
    - kkielhofner 4y ago
      Word of caution - this does not apply to countries with the most severe drug laws and associated punishments. There have been cases in UAE and especially Singapore[0] where travelers are drug tested on arrival and the presence of banned substances in blood or other bodily fluids is against the law. [0] - https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/saliva-test-drugs-roadblocks-land-checkpoints-changi-airport-3303071 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/saliva-test-drugs-...
ravishi 4y ago
I measure it with a Mi Band. It might not be the most precise measuring method, but I feel like I'm able to correlate "better sleep" shown in the app with "better mood" or "feeling better" the day after. And quitting weed does improve both of those measures. Of course I was not able to notice this when I was younger. Only now at 32 and a family these measurements are starting to actually be noticeable.
- tzs 4y ago
  > I feel like I'm able to correlate "better sleep" shown in the app with "better mood" or "feeling better" the day after If you look at the app and see that it says "better sleep" before starting the day and then notice that you had a good mood or felt better after that could be a placebo effect. You could check that by not looking at the app until after your day is done and you have noted if you had a good mood or felt better. If the app and your day's mood still correlate then it probably is something real. On the other hand checking if it is real risks making it no longer work, and a good mood is a good mood even if it was caused by a placebo. I'm not sure I'd check.
  - wizzwizz4 4y ago
    > On the other hand checking if it is real risks making it no longer work, The placebo effect doesn't go away if you know it's a placebo: if it's worked in the past because you thought it did, it will continue to work if you think it will. https://xkcd.com/1526/ https://xkcd.com/1526/
    - toast0 4y ago
      If you doubt its effectiveness because you know it's placebo, it might not work anymore. Especially if you're wondering all day if you're in a good mood or not.
      - wizzwizz4 4y ago
        So... don't do that? If it worked before, but it doesn't work in theory, it works. It might not even be placebo! Perhaps the combination of (well rested) + (optimistic) means you have a good day, and the experiment changes those conditions enough that you get different results. Heck, you might end up having better days more often. You never know if you don't try.
ProAm 4y ago
There have been studies on it. Whether its harmful or not I do not know. [1] "To address this question, Feinberg, et al. (1975) compared the sleep patterns of experienced marijuana users on tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and a placebo. Feinberg, et al. (1975) reported reduced eye movement activity and less REM sleep in the THC condition. They also reported a REM rebound effect, which is more REM activity, on withdrawal from THC. So, there exists some scientific evidence that marijuana interferes with REM sleep." [1] [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-teenage-mind/200906/marijuana-sleep-and-dreams https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-teenage-mind/200...
- swatcoder 4y ago
  “How do you measure how it effects you?” “Somebody dosed four people for a couple weeks, 50 years ago, and wrote about it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/164314/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/164314/ “ Studies don’t tell you facts about your own experience, especially weak studies. Studies only tell you about statistical patterns in whatever population they represent. Here, the study is so poor that it doesn’t actually say anything reliable at all. Check your references, folks!
  - ProAm 4y ago
    > Studies don’t tell you facts about your own experience I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Personal experience not based in science is something that should never be regarded as factual or can be broadly attributed to others biological effects. This is just one study. There have been others, but enjoy your experience.
    - swatcoder 4y ago
      If you think that promoting scientific literacy is anti-science, we’re in trouble!
canes123456 4y ago
Pretty much every sedative, ambian, alcohol, etc, will decrease REM sleep and increase deep sleep. I have no idea about THC but assume the effect is similar.
neom 4y ago
I smoked weed every day for 10 years and basically forgot what dreaming was, people would tell me about their dreams and I thought they're nuts... I presumed I must be dreaming but I just didn't remember it, but the idea people could remember these extreme vivid crazy dreams they could control seemed totally foreign to me. I moved to a country where weed was very illegal and stopped smoking it, after about 5 months of no weed I started to have the most insane, crazy cool, very very vivid dreams. Then I moved back to Canada for a year and started to toke, again, I almost immediately stopped dreaming. When I left Canada again, and stopped weed again, dreams came back again. My personal very unscientific hypothesis is that I process a lot more of that emotional/thoughtful stuff when I'm awake and stoned, but honestly, who knows.. I find it somewhat concerning to be honest, the difference in my dreaming on and off weed is markedly very stark.
- enraged_camel 4y ago
  Can confirm. I visited another galaxy last night. It was wild.
- ABeeSea 4y ago
  I almost wanted to start smoking again after I quit just to stop dreaming. Quit 3 years ago and the dreams are just so vivid and intense versus the dreamless sleep when I was smoking.
  - neom 4y ago
    I can totally relate, I actually really don't enjoy the intense dreaming either. I find it overwhelming and uncomfortable and much prefer my dreamless sleeping. That being said, I also accept there is evidence that dreaming is important for your health. I don't particularly enjoy having to go pee throughout the day either, but if I stopped doing it, I'd be pretty concerned for my health.
- ProllyInfamous 4y ago
  "Dreaming helps you to forget." — Francis Crick Good luck on your continued journey. G.Maté's "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" was very helpful for me, in moving past some childhood trauma.
wafflemaker 4y ago
How I tell of increase in REM sleep (x): 1. Remembering some dreams in the morning. Especially that I dreamt right before waking up. 2. Calmer mood, less jittery, harder to irritate. 3. Easier to maintain focus on things that are not fun, easier to resist distractions. How I tell the level of cannabinoids/alcohol in the body fell enough to allow good sleep with both deep and REM phases: - The first night you sleep with a proper REM phase you get a REM sleep rebound. It's characterized by lot of vivid, intense, often rare dreams. Easy to notice after a period in which you pretty much don't remember any dreams. Happens because there is much pressure in the body to catch up for lost REM sleep, but rebounds are not enough to catch up. The sad and deeply diabolical thing about cannabis is that it's half time in body is quite long (though adapted bodies metabolize it faster), so smoking/consuming chronicly (defined in Huberman Lab as 2 times per week or more often) is enough to pretty much completely rob you of REM sleep. You can't remember any dreams and even worse, you loose your everyday free emotional therapist that is REM sleep. If you add some other negative experiences or just a difficult period in life, you're in for depression or at least sad/tired/boring days. And what you might escape into in these days? Often more weed. x: anecdotal, most likely influenced by huberman lab's episodes on marijuana and on sleep. They describe what roles both deep sleep and REM sleep perform. Episode on weed is a must - listen for people consuming cannabis in any form, even sporadically, because lot of things around cannabis are counter intuitive (f.ex. that it doesn't help with sleep). If you thing problems with sleep affect you or that your sleep quality suffers because of drug (including alcohol) use, consider listening to these Huberman Lab episodes or talking to a specialist if that's available to you.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Hey thanks for the plug, I listened to a few of his show and liked it a few years ago. I go with 2 months cycle with THC. On and then off. Toward the end of the ON period I can’t stand weed anymore and I’m often grumpy as fuck. Then I rediscover it 2 month later and it’s great. Yah. Not great. Going to listen to that now.
coldtea 4y ago
>Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. Sleep well, or "sleep enough hours"/"don't have insomnia"? Because sleeping well and REM sleep can't be deduced from the latter, it needs to be measured. Not even self-reporting is enough - because chronic bad sleep becomes the baseline, so people used it to just consider their mental clarity/energy levels when they wake up normal (like a person with shortsightedness, who doesn't know he has it -- they're then suprised when they finally get glasses and see that, no, it wasn't normal actually).
- dustymcp 4y ago
  Anecdotally i learned stopping a few hours before sleep gives a way better sleep that night, but many smoke weed to fall asleep which is sort of counter productive..
Synaesthesia 4y ago
I sleep well at night. My watch tells me I don't get much REM sleep and I also don't dream a lot.
filoleg 4y ago
Not disagreeing with you overall, but I just wanted to add a bit of nuance to things you've mentioned. > Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and still sleep well at night. First, as far as I know, smoking weed would only affect your sleep if you consumed it a couple of hours or so before sleep (exact numbers vary per person, but you get the idea). If someone consumed some weed during lunch, I would expect theit nighttime sleep to be pretty much unaffected. Second, what do you mean by "sleep well"? They might fall asleep faster and stay asleep throughout the night. But how good was their sleep quality in reality? We are talking in terms of measuring REM cycle length and such. From anecdotal experience, I also thought that my sleep shortly after consuming was "good", as I would fall asleep easier. However, I can confirm that it wasn't high quality sleep at all for me, my REM cycle was very short, and I definitely noticed extra groginess after waking up (along with the rest of the things mentioned in sibling comments, like lack of dreams and such). Doing some more A/B testing on my sleep in regards to consumption of weed pretty much made it clear that it makes my sleep quality worse, but makes it easier to fall asleep.

ravenstine 4y ago

How do you know you get little REM sleep?

dangwhy 4y ago
no vivid dreams on weed. Actually, no dreams at all.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
haswell 4y ago
Many fitness trackers will now show you this information, in addition to the lack of dreams as others have mentioned.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  My question was specifically referring to how the OP knows their lack of dreams rather than generally speaking, but thanks for sharing info that might help someone reading this.
  - haswell 4y ago
    I see. In that case, it’s also worth mentioning that the impact of THC on REM sleep has been the subject of multiple studies, with strong evidence showing a link between THC usage and reduced or missing REM stages. So if someone has evidence that they are missing REM sleep (i.e. a tracker or a noted lack of dreams) and are also consuming THC, there are good reasons to suspect THC is the culprit over other possible causes.

rpastuszak 4y ago

Your cognitive skills and memory are likely improve if you take a break. I think this is related to the impact of THC/CBD/CBN on different sleep stages and their function wrt memory and processing information. It's likely that you'll experience a period of very vivid dreams and increased energy. It's good to put that energy into something that will get you tired (and sleepy!), e.g. sport.

chitowneats 4y ago
The hardest part about quitting weed for me was terrifying, vivid nightmares. Ironic considering how these "hallucinations" are an order of magnitude more powerful than any you would get from the drug itself. I relapsed several times because of this. But if you stick to quitting for long enough, that symptom will subside.
- seszett 4y ago
  As far as I understand, these dreams are because your body is catching up for all the missing REM sleep your didn't have before. So you have a lot more REM sleep for a while because you need it, and REM sleep normally goes along with vivid dreams.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  > The hardest part about quitting weed for me was terrifying, vivid nightmares. Am I like the only person that gets that on weed? I still dream most nights when using cannabis, and I have no idea why.

mason55 4y ago

I replaced drinking with weed for awhile but I noticed I wasn't feeling all that much better. Then I started tracking my sleep with an Apple Watch and found that with both alcohol and pot, the amount of deep sleep I get is super impacted. I'm sure it's not 100% scientific but it correlates well enough that I'm convinced. Even a couple drinks will knock me down to 15-45 minutes of deep sleep in a night, vs. 90+ that I get during the week. Once I stopped both alcohol & pot I found that I felt much better, the way I expected to feel after I quit drinking.

weedtoker2324 4y ago

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imdan 4y ago

I've found that, like alcohol and caffeine, limiting your weed intake directly before sleep seems to minimize the negative effects it has on the quality of sleep. Based on fitbit data and morning grogginess, over two to four hours before sleep seems to be a good window, but it definitely depends on the strength, quantity, and how you're consuming it. It wouldn't surprise me though if most of the negative associations with weed usage (laziness, lack of motivation, depression, etc.) are really just the results of a lack of REM sleep. It seems to be a pretty important process as far as I can tell.

kkielhofner 4y ago

This is the case for almost every drug/agent that has “sleep aid” properties. From Benadryl to Ambien and alcohol, marijuana, etc they help induce sleep (fall asleep faster) but generally the actual quality of sleep is worse. I always take pause when I hear people talk about the “benefit” of having a drink or using marijuana (typically “Indica strain”) before bed to help sleep. We’re all unique but generally I wonder how they would view their restfulness compared to ideal sleep strategies like diet, exercise, screen usage/stimulation, routine, etc.

ryukafalz 4y ago
Melatonin presumably being the exception, right? Since it's the same sleep hormone you're producing naturally. (In reasonable doses anyway.)
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  I’m certainly not a doctor but I’ve heard varying reports on melatonin. While produced naturally it’s like anything else - we have receptors for everything from marijuana to heroin because our bodies produce similar molecules (endorphins for pain suppression during fight or flight, dopamine for reward systems, etc). So saying we “produce melatonin” doesn’t imply safety. From what little I’ve read and understand it does seem to be very individualized, dosage dependent, etc.
- simplyluke 4y ago
  I’m far from an expert here, but I’ve noticed quite a few prominent scientists including Dr. Andrew Huberman recommending against frequent use of it, particularly in children. Part of the issue is label accuracy on supplements for it can be off by several orders of magnitude. https://hubermanlab.com/sleep-toolkit-tools-for-optimizing-sleep-and-sleep-wake-timing/ https://hubermanlab.com/sleep-toolkit-tools-for-optimizing-s...
VirusNewbie 4y ago
Interesting enough, I always wondered why it seemed like I slept better with alcohol, and getting a sleep tracker helped me understand: alcohol lowers REM sleep, but increases deep sleep. In my case, without alcohol I’m abundant in REM but lacking in deep sleep. So in my case, one drink improves my sleep quality! However I don’t think alcohol is healthy, so I don’t regularly imbibe, but it would be nice to find something healthy that would make that trade off for me.

bob_scratchit 4y ago

I know he’s become YouTube hype bros favorite source for click bait videos, but the Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman has some great podcast episodes about sleep and also how weed/alcohol greatly impact it. I found it really insightful in terms of how even moderate use of alcohol/weed can greatly impact sleep quality.