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What does it mean then that Windows is a walled garden? That it can only run Windows software? How is then Linux also not a walled garden?

by 323 4y ago

anthk 4y ago
Linux can run floss and Windows software too.
- criddell 4y ago
  And macOS can (legally) run Linux, Windows, Mac, and some iOS/iPadOS software. No OS beats it in this respect.
- 323 4y ago
  Windows can also run floss and Linux software too.
teknopaul 4y ago
You don't have to pay anyone to sign a driver you write to use it yourself. With Windows you can write some software, but not all software. You have to pay Microsoft to sign drivers. The code that enforces that is the wall. No such code exists in a Linux. All is possible.
- deely3 4y ago
  Just to clarify - this is main difference between Windows and Linux, and this is why Windows by definition is walled garden? Actually, I think I'm ok with it. As far as I understand you don't need to sign USB drivers, and for other drivers signing is additional level of security.
kwhitefoot 4y ago
Wine is just a few clicks away in most distros or go to https://www.winehq.org/ https://www.winehq.org/ and follow the instructions there. It can run quite a bit of Windows software. I've just spent a pleasant few minutes playing 3D Pinball for Windows - Space Cadet,
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  In that vein, wouldn’t WSL then allow Linux software to run on Windows?
  - kwhitefoot 4y ago
    I don't know why you were downvoted because it's a perfectly reasonable question. The answer is not really, or rather the last time I tried it wasn't easy to get X windows running properly so you were stuck with just terminal based programs but that was a couple of years ago. Now I have switched entirely to Linux I'll have to leave it to others to describe the current state of affairs with WSL and X windows
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      I haven't used it, but in theory it seems to be fully supported, with screenshots in the help article showing several apps running, and instructions (however short) laid out for various apps like Gedit, GIMP, Chrome, even Nautilus: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/tutorials/gui-apps https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/tutorials/gui-... It seems to be as easy as installing a driver and then... installing the apps in the distro. That makes it even easier than Wine IMO. To me, it seemed perfectly reasonable to call it the Windows equivalent to Wine but :shrug:
kilgnad 4y ago
You have a point. Anyone can develop software for windows. It's not walled off at all. There are security prompts in place when you start doing unsafe things but you can pretty much do anything. The only thing walled off is the source code but nobody is referring to that. I think people are associating walled garden with closed source. This is not a consistent association because there is one operating system that is, in actuality, a true walled garden where the term fits: iOS is a walled garden. The characterization of the term here is entirely different from windows or Linux. Thus the parent is also correct about his point. If you use a Linux distro exclusively with a package manager. It is effectively as if you are in a walled garden. It is just like using the app store on macos exclusively.
layer8 4y ago
Windows is slowly getting more walled. For example, it’s not possible anymore to freely define file type associations in the registry. Windows only enables the user to do so via a very limited UI, which for example doesn’t allow custom icons, command lines, or custom groupings or forwarding of associations. Someone reverse-engineered the protection to defeat it [1], but it’s still a pain. Another example is that it’s almost impossible to change the UI look in ways not intended by Microsoft (which are much more limited now than 20 years ago). [1] https://kolbi.cz/blog/2017/10/25/setuserfta-userchoice-hash-defeated-set-file-type-associations-per-user/ https://kolbi.cz/blog/2017/10/25/setuserfta-userchoice-hash-...
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  To play Devil's Advocate, I can see the reasoning behind that. Malware changing file associations behind the scenes is a fairly common occurence. Hell, even programs you want occasionally change file associations without your permission. So putting protections in place to try and prevent that is ultimately a boon for most users.

What does it mean then that Windows is a walled garden? That it can only run Windows software? How is then Linux also not a walled garden?

by 323 4y ago

What does it mean then that Windows is a walled garden? That it can only run Windows software? How is then Linux also not a walled garden?

anthk 4y ago

Linux can run floss and Windows software too.

criddell 4y ago
And macOS can (legally) run Linux, Windows, Mac, and some iOS/iPadOS software. No OS beats it in this respect.
323 4y ago
Windows can also run floss and Linux software too.

teknopaul 4y ago

You don't have to pay anyone to sign a driver you write to use it yourself. With Windows you can write some software, but not all software. You have to pay Microsoft to sign drivers. The code that enforces that is the wall. No such code exists in a Linux. All is possible.

deely3 4y ago
Just to clarify - this is main difference between Windows and Linux, and this is why Windows by definition is walled garden? Actually, I think I'm ok with it. As far as I understand you don't need to sign USB drivers, and for other drivers signing is additional level of security.

kwhitefoot 4y ago

Wine is just a few clicks away in most distros or go to https://www.winehq.org/ https://www.winehq.org/ and follow the instructions there. It can run quite a bit of Windows software. I've just spent a pleasant few minutes playing 3D Pinball for Windows - Space Cadet,

mynameisvlad 4y ago
In that vein, wouldn’t WSL then allow Linux software to run on Windows?
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  I don't know why you were downvoted because it's a perfectly reasonable question. The answer is not really, or rather the last time I tried it wasn't easy to get X windows running properly so you were stuck with just terminal based programs but that was a couple of years ago. Now I have switched entirely to Linux I'll have to leave it to others to describe the current state of affairs with WSL and X windows
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    I haven't used it, but in theory it seems to be fully supported, with screenshots in the help article showing several apps running, and instructions (however short) laid out for various apps like Gedit, GIMP, Chrome, even Nautilus: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/tutorials/gui-apps https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/tutorials/gui-... It seems to be as easy as installing a driver and then... installing the apps in the distro. That makes it even easier than Wine IMO. To me, it seemed perfectly reasonable to call it the Windows equivalent to Wine but :shrug:

kilgnad 4y ago

You have a point. Anyone can develop software for windows. It's not walled off at all. There are security prompts in place when you start doing unsafe things but you can pretty much do anything. The only thing walled off is the source code but nobody is referring to that. I think people are associating walled garden with closed source. This is not a consistent association because there is one operating system that is, in actuality, a true walled garden where the term fits: iOS is a walled garden. The characterization of the term here is entirely different from windows or Linux. Thus the parent is also correct about his point. If you use a Linux distro exclusively with a package manager. It is effectively as if you are in a walled garden. It is just like using the app store on macos exclusively.

layer8 4y ago

Windows is slowly getting more walled. For example, it’s not possible anymore to freely define file type associations in the registry. Windows only enables the user to do so via a very limited UI, which for example doesn’t allow custom icons, command lines, or custom groupings or forwarding of associations. Someone reverse-engineered the protection to defeat it [1], but it’s still a pain. Another example is that it’s almost impossible to change the UI look in ways not intended by Microsoft (which are much more limited now than 20 years ago). [1] https://kolbi.cz/blog/2017/10/25/setuserfta-userchoice-hash-defeated-set-file-type-associations-per-user/ https://kolbi.cz/blog/2017/10/25/setuserfta-userchoice-hash-...

Dalewyn 4y ago
To play Devil's Advocate, I can see the reasoning behind that. Malware changing file associations behind the scenes is a fairly common occurence. Hell, even programs you want occasionally change file associations without your permission. So putting protections in place to try and prevent that is ultimately a boon for most users.