5 ms·

I’ll reply to your question with a question: once VSCode has proved one could build hyperscale complex apps that perform well, would you be fast to bet for less

I’ll reply to your question with a question: once VSCode has proved one could build hyperscale complex apps that perform well, would you be fast to bet for less proven tech? I’ve had a great experience using VSCode on occasion (I’m a JetBrains guy), and loads of other people, including some great programmers, rave about it. I’ve similarly had a fairly solid experience with Spotify desktop across different platforms. I’m asking genuinely, is it such a subpar choice when there’s such proven success cases?

2h 4y ago
> VSCode has proved one could build hyperscale complex apps that perform well did it though? It might perform "good enough", but its still an order of magnitude worse than native solutions. the only reason to ever use Electron or similar is for rapid prototyping. once you have an MVP, you should immediately work towards a native solution. people seem to forget that part, out of laziness or ignorance.
- simonw 4y ago
  What's your theory on why the VS Code team haven't migrated to native solutions for their app?
  - AlotOfReading 4y ago
    They do have a native solution you might be familiar with, "Visual Studio". It took them a solid decade to port it even from 32->64 bit (finally released last year). Hard to blame them for some institutional PTSD around the whole idea of native apps.
- Renaud 4y ago
  You have to define ‘worse’ because raw performance isn’t really everything and vscode’s popularity proves it. Feature set and extensibility have clearly won here. At a certain performance point, it’s good enough and what you can do with it matters more. I’m not sure you could achieve the sane flexibility in a more native, “bare-metal”, development environment. Possible, yes, but it would probably not be as successful as developing for it would be somewhat harder. Vscode is “fast” enough. Its extensibility and its ecosystem are what makes it so popular and successful. I’m not sure you can build the same without trade offs.
- jeremy_wiebe 4y ago
  I use VS Code daily and I have never had performance issues. That obviously doesn’t apply to all folks. Also, it seems presumptuous to prescribe what appropriate solutions are for all people of all time. There are many, many places where an electronjs would be just fine.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    > Also, it seems presumptuous to prescribe what appropriate solutions are for all people of all time. There are many, many places where an electronjs would be just fine. And many where it wouldn't. It seems more presumptuous to me to demand that users have machines with that much memory and CPU to spare.
    - zztop44 4y ago
      No one is demanding anything. VS Code exists. Lots of other code editors also exist. Many are native. Choose whichever one you want.
  - Ygg2 4y ago
    I did use it and find it subpar to JVM based IDE (namely Jetbrains). Yes, both are memory hogs, but Jetbrains feels smoother.
- eastbound 4y ago
  > once you have an MVP, you should immediately work towards a native solution. All of the chat apps that worked towards a native solution have died. Most of the other apps too, but all of the chat apps. Going native, despite being satisfying for the user, carries a maximum cost in terms of internal organization (several departments in the company for each target OS), HR (developers that can’t be recycled in other departments), marketing: “Wait, does HipChat MacOS has the same features as HipChat-on-the-mac-but-in-browser? Wait it doesn’t matter, HipChat is dead.”
  - gbear605 4y ago
    Telegram, which is easily the best chat app by software quality, has native apps on all platforms (well, QT on desktop, but that’s close enough). iMessage is native as well, and widely used, though it has admittedly fewer target devices. Those are the two I use daily, so I definitely don’t live in your Electron world, and I’m happy for it.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  What are the 'native solutions'?
matt_holden 4y ago
Also: Figma, Linear, Notion, Slack, Superhuman, Pitch, Loom. All Electron. I’ve never understood the hate Electron gets on HN, when it powers so many great products that users love.
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  The ones of these I've actually used like Slack are doggie doo. Aside from using way more resources than a chat app should, last I checked basic UX was not close to on par with native, like right mouse clicks didn't do anything but bring up the built in browser menus.
  - JeremyBanks 4y ago
    [dead]
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    >like right mouse clicks didn't do anything but bring up the built in browser menus. You should try this in slack again...
    - chrisweekly 4y ago
      That UX decision has nothing to do w/ Electron.
      - operatingthetan 4y ago
        If someone brings up a single example they should ensure it aligns to their criticisms, as a rule.
- clumsysmurf 4y ago
  I don't mind using an Electron app. The problem is, they are multiplying too fast. I currently use: 1Password, VS Code, Discord and / or Element, Obsidian, and Postman. They use most of the machine's resources doing nothing at all.

2h 4y ago

> VSCode has proved one could build hyperscale complex apps that perform well did it though? It might perform "good enough", but its still an order of magnitude worse than native solutions. the only reason to ever use Electron or similar is for rapid prototyping. once you have an MVP, you should immediately work towards a native solution. people seem to forget that part, out of laziness or ignorance.

simonw 4y ago
What's your theory on why the VS Code team haven't migrated to native solutions for their app?
- AlotOfReading 4y ago
  They do have a native solution you might be familiar with, "Visual Studio". It took them a solid decade to port it even from 32->64 bit (finally released last year). Hard to blame them for some institutional PTSD around the whole idea of native apps.
Renaud 4y ago
You have to define ‘worse’ because raw performance isn’t really everything and vscode’s popularity proves it. Feature set and extensibility have clearly won here. At a certain performance point, it’s good enough and what you can do with it matters more. I’m not sure you could achieve the sane flexibility in a more native, “bare-metal”, development environment. Possible, yes, but it would probably not be as successful as developing for it would be somewhat harder. Vscode is “fast” enough. Its extensibility and its ecosystem are what makes it so popular and successful. I’m not sure you can build the same without trade offs.
jeremy_wiebe 4y ago
I use VS Code daily and I have never had performance issues. That obviously doesn’t apply to all folks. Also, it seems presumptuous to prescribe what appropriate solutions are for all people of all time. There are many, many places where an electronjs would be just fine.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > Also, it seems presumptuous to prescribe what appropriate solutions are for all people of all time. There are many, many places where an electronjs would be just fine. And many where it wouldn't. It seems more presumptuous to me to demand that users have machines with that much memory and CPU to spare.
  - zztop44 4y ago
    No one is demanding anything. VS Code exists. Lots of other code editors also exist. Many are native. Choose whichever one you want.
- Ygg2 4y ago
  I did use it and find it subpar to JVM based IDE (namely Jetbrains). Yes, both are memory hogs, but Jetbrains feels smoother.
eastbound 4y ago
> once you have an MVP, you should immediately work towards a native solution. All of the chat apps that worked towards a native solution have died. Most of the other apps too, but all of the chat apps. Going native, despite being satisfying for the user, carries a maximum cost in terms of internal organization (several departments in the company for each target OS), HR (developers that can’t be recycled in other departments), marketing: “Wait, does HipChat MacOS has the same features as HipChat-on-the-mac-but-in-browser? Wait it doesn’t matter, HipChat is dead.”
- gbear605 4y ago
  Telegram, which is easily the best chat app by software quality, has native apps on all platforms (well, QT on desktop, but that’s close enough). iMessage is native as well, and widely used, though it has admittedly fewer target devices. Those are the two I use daily, so I definitely don’t live in your Electron world, and I’m happy for it.
madeofpalk 4y ago
What are the 'native solutions'?

matt_holden 4y ago

Also: Figma, Linear, Notion, Slack, Superhuman, Pitch, Loom. All Electron. I’ve never understood the hate Electron gets on HN, when it powers so many great products that users love.

TexanFeller 4y ago
The ones of these I've actually used like Slack are doggie doo. Aside from using way more resources than a chat app should, last I checked basic UX was not close to on par with native, like right mouse clicks didn't do anything but bring up the built in browser menus.
- JeremyBanks 4y ago
  [dead]
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  >like right mouse clicks didn't do anything but bring up the built in browser menus. You should try this in slack again...
  - chrisweekly 4y ago
    That UX decision has nothing to do w/ Electron.
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      If someone brings up a single example they should ensure it aligns to their criticisms, as a rule.
clumsysmurf 4y ago
I don't mind using an Electron app. The problem is, they are multiplying too fast. I currently use: 1Password, VS Code, Discord and / or Element, Obsidian, and Postman. They use most of the machine's resources doing nothing at all.