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I actually get where you’re coming from, but I think your definition of knowledge work is not quite right. Knowledge workers are paid for their knowledge, yes,

by dcow 4y ago

I actually get where you’re coming from, but I think your definition of knowledge work is not quite right. Knowledge workers are paid for their knowledge, yes, but if it was just that you wouldn’t salary them. You’d get a knowledge dump once and then move along. An author is a knowledge worker, but they still have to write the damn book. A C staff employee may know a thing or two more than the average person in their domain or have an exciting track record, but they still have to work. I support trying to be more knowledge work positive, but I guarantee that unless your contract and job description says your job is to talk about solutions in meeting all day but not implement them, then you’re expected to implement them. Managers have to manage, not just talk about and think about managing. I am not anti meeting, but meetings need to conclude with assigned action items or have specific defined output like a concrete decision being made. If they don't they’re not knowledge work… they’re a sloppy waste of time masquerading as work.

BaseballPhysics 4y ago
> but meetings need to conclude with assigned action items or have specific defined output like a concrete decision being made. Do they? Have you never held a brainstorming session? Or had an open-ended discussion to ideate on strategy? Again, your comment is reflecting the same bias I always see: that the "real work" happens outside of meetings. The author is challenging that notion and I think it's worth at least considering their thesis.
- dcow 4y ago
  > Do they? … Then the output is a brainstorm or strategy doc. > Again, your comment … “real work” happens outside of meetings. No I’m not I literally said work can happen in meetings. But I said it doesn't happen without effort and thoughtfulness and that knowledge work is still work at the end of the day. Nobody pays somebody to sit and ideate on strategy all day. If that’s a thing show me the job description. And if it is it’s not your whole team, guaranteed. > The author I have considered the hypothesis. I am responding to your naively loose definition of knowledge work. I am not anti meeting or the like. I’m pro knowledge work is work. But I am certain no value was ever created by a team that sat in meetings brainstorming and ideating all day with no tangible output, by definition.

by dcow 4y ago

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

> but meetings need to conclude with assigned action items or have specific defined output like a concrete decision being made. Do they? Have you never held a brainstorming session? Or had an open-ended discussion to ideate on strategy? Again, your comment is reflecting the same bias I always see: that the "real work" happens outside of meetings. The author is challenging that notion and I think it's worth at least considering their thesis.

dcow 4y ago
> Do they? … Then the output is a brainstorm or strategy doc. > Again, your comment … “real work” happens outside of meetings. No I’m not I literally said work can happen in meetings. But I said it doesn't happen without effort and thoughtfulness and that knowledge work is still work at the end of the day. Nobody pays somebody to sit and ideate on strategy all day. If that’s a thing show me the job description. And if it is it’s not your whole team, guaranteed. > The author I have considered the hypothesis. I am responding to your naively loose definition of knowledge work. I am not anti meeting or the like. I’m pro knowledge work is work. But I am certain no value was ever created by a team that sat in meetings brainstorming and ideating all day with no tangible output, by definition.