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Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery? Seemingly battery replacement can still be done "in 5 minutes" but this still makes

Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery? Seemingly battery replacement can still be done "in 5 minutes" but this still makes pop-out/on the road battery swapping unpractical. https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/nokia-g22 https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/nokia-g22

throwanem 4y ago
The tradeoff is "back cover that comes off in an instant, whenever you want it to" versus "back cover that comes off in an instant, even when you don't want it to."
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Why can't the back cover just screw on and off? How often do you need to replace your battery? Maybe twice in 4 years? What percentage of people keep a phone for more than 4 years? 5%?
  - billfor 4y ago
    Not so much replacing as swapping for a spare to double life without recharging.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      Samsung even made an ad about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 ...but then stopped making removable batteries after that.
      - toastal 4y ago
        Like Google teasing Apple for removing the headphone jack and then following that anti-usability trend on next year's model.
  - 6510 4y ago
    I had a dumb phone back in the days that ran on 4 conventional AA batteries. Opening the lid and swapping 4 batteries is less convenient than swapping a single flat cell but its so much better than being wired to the wall or using a clumsy power bank with a cable that is always to short and to long at the same time. The whole charging ritual is far more absurd than it seems. The screen needs to power down, there has to be a power savings mode. With intense use (normal?) and erratic charging patterns batteries degrade much faster than advertised. I mean, I read "lifespan is 2 – 3 years, which is about 300 – 500 charge cycles" when actually used you get about 5 hours out of a charge. real use say 3 months, running from socket to socket. LOL Cant stop laughing thinking about it, luxurious homes with all the trimmings then have the whole family gather around the extension cord. Like on a construction site. Imagine guns worked like this. We can glue in the cartridge and you'd be able to shoot people for many years? 6 shots should be enough for 3 years when the software expires.
  - lucb1e 4y ago
    Nowadays? Never, obviously. The odds of me breaking the phone are so large, and the tools I need specialized enough, that I need a new phone on stand-by anyway. No point replacing the battery if I already bought a new one just in case I break the old one by trying to do something as weird as replacing a wear-heavy part. So it has fallen out of style. There is no market for spare batteries and using them as range extenders is not common use. It seems like an outlandish thing to do now. I think I went through three batteries on my Galaxy Note 2 (first Android phone) before upgrading. Apps dropping support became a problem... nothing wrong with the hardware at the time where I felt forced to trash it. Anyway, carrying an extra battery for long travel days was not a weird thing to do. I also remember non-tech people having spare batteries for Nokias (when they became more capable; not when the only use was calling your mom to say you were going to a friend's after school).
- atchoo 4y ago
  I never had a problem with a Note 4. The way you could buy cases that replaced the back cover meant for a much thinner profile phone than the typical metal case wrapped in silicone. Replaceable batteries are glorious. I never plugged-in my phone, just flipped the battery with one from the charger when I left the house. Instant 100% battery. Travelling? Just take a few charged batteries at a fraction of the weight of a power-bank and much more convenient.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    Somehow this very important use case is lost on modern phone makers.
- cptaj 4y ago
  My decades of experience with easily removable back covers tells me this is a complete non-issue. The back cover coming off accidentally has never happened to me.
  - dsr_ 4y ago
    It happened to me repeatedly with two different phones, but never when I had a protective case on the phone -- and I always buy one.
  - Tempest1981 4y ago
    For me, it's more of a fidget-spinner. I keep popping it off and on when bored.
  - lucb1e 4y ago
    Moreover, the battery coming out seemed to act as a shock absorber. If you do throw it hard enough for it to come out, and that was rare for me, at least something gives instead of breaks. Ah, the memories of classmates playing soccer with phones in high school... phones could run MSN, browse websites (without JS! The .mobi site owners were just forced to make sites lightweight), play Java-based games, had replaceable screen covers, honestly what more should we want? That it's now open source Android instead of proprietary Symbian is great, but slap a touchscreen on it for web browsing and upgrade it from GPRS to 4G or so, and theoretically we could just have nice things.
  - Animats 4y ago
    It has for me, and that was a Caterpillar ruggedized phone.
BurningFrog 4y ago
I suspect waterproof-ness is one issue.
rg111 4y ago
Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist. I and tens of millions other people used removable back cover phones for years before the sealed phone became the norm. Edit: Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I am genuinely interested. I really used user-removable battery phones for close to a decade. I found no issues.
- michaelteter 4y ago
  > Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I suspect it is this: > Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist. While companies do want you to buy the newest version every year or two, it is more likely that cost-benefit analysis tells them to build the way they build; they know they must release newer better phones periodically because the competition will do this also. But to support older phones has a cost, and at some point those old phones don't generate enough revenue to justify the cost of supporting them.
- KarlKemp 4y ago
  You can’t think of another reason? Not maybe any of those mentioned in the thread? And then you can’t think of reasons for the downvotes? I see a pattern, maybe?
crazygringo 4y ago
Waterproofing is the main reason. But then thickness and aesthetic "cheapness" is a secondary one. A removeable cover and battery is always going to introduce a little bit of thickness, which on a thin phone is noticeable even if not major. And then whether you have screws or the ridges for removing the cover, it just always feels a little "cheap". You can't get the same kind of rounded smooth glass or aluminum backing that wraps seamlessly around the edges. And when people are comparing two phones in their hands, the one that feels more "premium" is often the one they'll go with if they feel they're already paying a premium price. This is an object they hold in their hand all day long. And if you live in a major city, it's really not a big deal to get your battery replaced after 2 years at an Apple Store.
- dsego 4y ago
  > Waterproofing is the main reason. Samsung Galaxy S5
  - lucb1e 4y ago
    Huh, guess I am just that gullible to buy the marketing to the point where I now wonder: how the heck can you have a removable battery and also survive being held under water? (It has an IP67 rating.) I guess waterproof everything except the battery contacts and trust that the salinity is low enough that the 5V doesn't jump between the poles, plus it not being wet for long enough to start rusting (IP67 afaik doesn't require it to work a week later still)?
    - acdha 4y ago
      Older devices I used had gaskets around the battery contacts and a tight fastener. That seems to work well until the gasket eventually degrades over time.
    - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
      S5 checking in here - there's a rubber gasket all around the back cover.
twobitshifter 4y ago
With the Samsung S5, I’d take a couple extra batteries with me when traveling. Never had to worry about a dead battery or bother with a power bank. That phone was waterproof but had a special ridge around the back panel.
- aspyct 4y ago
  I actually prefer power bank to spare batteries. Spare batteries can only be used with the phone, whereas power banks are standard and usable with many other devices if needed. Also, small phone batteries usually don't come with a carrying case. They're fragile and you could accidentally short them.
petee 4y ago
Could be wrong (please correct me) but i recall hearing that allowing a customer to change a battery (e.g, 3rd party) on a chargable device can change the safety of the product/UL rating or whatever, so it could simply be a certification thing. Not exactly the same thing, but I have a Garmin heartrate chest strap with a replaceable battery (no charging) -- in the US the cover swivels open to change, but in Australia it requries a screw, for child safety rules. I Thought that was interesting
- Zak 4y ago
  There's a specific issue with young children eating button-cell lithium batteries, which I'm guessing is what your Garmin device uses. Australia appears to have a law requiring the battery compartments of such devices to be child-resistant. I'm not sure if any countries have similar regulations related to larger Li-ion rechargeable batteries. https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C00445 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C00445
tastyfreeze 4y ago
Check out the Samsung XCover phones if you want that kind of battery swap.
glenstein 4y ago
>Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery? This is one of the delights of the Moto z series phones because they have magnetic batteries that can be swapped on and off with your bare hands without even having to open up a battery cover or power off the phone.

throwanem 4y ago

The tradeoff is "back cover that comes off in an instant, whenever you want it to" versus "back cover that comes off in an instant, even when you don't want it to."

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Why can't the back cover just screw on and off? How often do you need to replace your battery? Maybe twice in 4 years? What percentage of people keep a phone for more than 4 years? 5%?
- billfor 4y ago
  Not so much replacing as swapping for a spare to double life without recharging.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    Samsung even made an ad about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 ...but then stopped making removable batteries after that.
    - toastal 4y ago
      Like Google teasing Apple for removing the headphone jack and then following that anti-usability trend on next year's model.
- 6510 4y ago
  I had a dumb phone back in the days that ran on 4 conventional AA batteries. Opening the lid and swapping 4 batteries is less convenient than swapping a single flat cell but its so much better than being wired to the wall or using a clumsy power bank with a cable that is always to short and to long at the same time. The whole charging ritual is far more absurd than it seems. The screen needs to power down, there has to be a power savings mode. With intense use (normal?) and erratic charging patterns batteries degrade much faster than advertised. I mean, I read "lifespan is 2 – 3 years, which is about 300 – 500 charge cycles" when actually used you get about 5 hours out of a charge. real use say 3 months, running from socket to socket. LOL Cant stop laughing thinking about it, luxurious homes with all the trimmings then have the whole family gather around the extension cord. Like on a construction site. Imagine guns worked like this. We can glue in the cartridge and you'd be able to shoot people for many years? 6 shots should be enough for 3 years when the software expires.
- lucb1e 4y ago
  Nowadays? Never, obviously. The odds of me breaking the phone are so large, and the tools I need specialized enough, that I need a new phone on stand-by anyway. No point replacing the battery if I already bought a new one just in case I break the old one by trying to do something as weird as replacing a wear-heavy part. So it has fallen out of style. There is no market for spare batteries and using them as range extenders is not common use. It seems like an outlandish thing to do now. I think I went through three batteries on my Galaxy Note 2 (first Android phone) before upgrading. Apps dropping support became a problem... nothing wrong with the hardware at the time where I felt forced to trash it. Anyway, carrying an extra battery for long travel days was not a weird thing to do. I also remember non-tech people having spare batteries for Nokias (when they became more capable; not when the only use was calling your mom to say you were going to a friend's after school).
atchoo 4y ago
I never had a problem with a Note 4. The way you could buy cases that replaced the back cover meant for a much thinner profile phone than the typical metal case wrapped in silicone. Replaceable batteries are glorious. I never plugged-in my phone, just flipped the battery with one from the charger when I left the house. Instant 100% battery. Travelling? Just take a few charged batteries at a fraction of the weight of a power-bank and much more convenient.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  Somehow this very important use case is lost on modern phone makers.
cptaj 4y ago
My decades of experience with easily removable back covers tells me this is a complete non-issue. The back cover coming off accidentally has never happened to me.
- dsr_ 4y ago
  It happened to me repeatedly with two different phones, but never when I had a protective case on the phone -- and I always buy one.
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  For me, it's more of a fidget-spinner. I keep popping it off and on when bored.
- lucb1e 4y ago
  Moreover, the battery coming out seemed to act as a shock absorber. If you do throw it hard enough for it to come out, and that was rare for me, at least something gives instead of breaks. Ah, the memories of classmates playing soccer with phones in high school... phones could run MSN, browse websites (without JS! The .mobi site owners were just forced to make sites lightweight), play Java-based games, had replaceable screen covers, honestly what more should we want? That it's now open source Android instead of proprietary Symbian is great, but slap a touchscreen on it for web browsing and upgrade it from GPRS to 4G or so, and theoretically we could just have nice things.
- Animats 4y ago
  It has for me, and that was a Caterpillar ruggedized phone.

BurningFrog 4y ago

I suspect waterproof-ness is one issue.

rg111 4y ago

Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist. I and tens of millions other people used removable back cover phones for years before the sealed phone became the norm. Edit: Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I am genuinely interested. I really used user-removable battery phones for close to a decade. I found no issues.

michaelteter 4y ago
> Can anyone explain why they think that this is wrong? I suspect it is this: > Only forced obsoleting by the company. No other reasons exist. While companies do want you to buy the newest version every year or two, it is more likely that cost-benefit analysis tells them to build the way they build; they know they must release newer better phones periodically because the competition will do this also. But to support older phones has a cost, and at some point those old phones don't generate enough revenue to justify the cost of supporting them.
KarlKemp 4y ago
You can’t think of another reason? Not maybe any of those mentioned in the thread? And then you can’t think of reasons for the downvotes? I see a pattern, maybe?

crazygringo 4y ago

Waterproofing is the main reason. But then thickness and aesthetic "cheapness" is a secondary one. A removeable cover and battery is always going to introduce a little bit of thickness, which on a thin phone is noticeable even if not major. And then whether you have screws or the ridges for removing the cover, it just always feels a little "cheap". You can't get the same kind of rounded smooth glass or aluminum backing that wraps seamlessly around the edges. And when people are comparing two phones in their hands, the one that feels more "premium" is often the one they'll go with if they feel they're already paying a premium price. This is an object they hold in their hand all day long. And if you live in a major city, it's really not a big deal to get your battery replaced after 2 years at an Apple Store.

dsego 4y ago
> Waterproofing is the main reason. Samsung Galaxy S5
- lucb1e 4y ago
  Huh, guess I am just that gullible to buy the marketing to the point where I now wonder: how the heck can you have a removable battery and also survive being held under water? (It has an IP67 rating.) I guess waterproof everything except the battery contacts and trust that the salinity is low enough that the 5V doesn't jump between the poles, plus it not being wet for long enough to start rusting (IP67 afaik doesn't require it to work a week later still)?
  - acdha 4y ago
    Older devices I used had gaskets around the battery contacts and a tight fastener. That seems to work well until the gasket eventually degrades over time.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    S5 checking in here - there's a rubber gasket all around the back cover.

twobitshifter 4y ago

With the Samsung S5, I’d take a couple extra batteries with me when traveling. Never had to worry about a dead battery or bother with a power bank. That phone was waterproof but had a special ridge around the back panel.

aspyct 4y ago
I actually prefer power bank to spare batteries. Spare batteries can only be used with the phone, whereas power banks are standard and usable with many other devices if needed. Also, small phone batteries usually don't come with a carrying case. They're fragile and you could accidentally short them.

petee 4y ago

Could be wrong (please correct me) but i recall hearing that allowing a customer to change a battery (e.g, 3rd party) on a chargable device can change the safety of the product/UL rating or whatever, so it could simply be a certification thing. Not exactly the same thing, but I have a Garmin heartrate chest strap with a replaceable battery (no charging) -- in the US the cover swivels open to change, but in Australia it requries a screw, for child safety rules. I Thought that was interesting

Zak 4y ago
There's a specific issue with young children eating button-cell lithium batteries, which I'm guessing is what your Garmin device uses. Australia appears to have a law requiring the battery compartments of such devices to be child-resistant. I'm not sure if any countries have similar regulations related to larger Li-ion rechargeable batteries. https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C00445 https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2022C00445

tastyfreeze 4y ago

Check out the Samsung XCover phones if you want that kind of battery swap.

glenstein 4y ago

>Why is it so hard to add a removeable back cover to have swappable battery? This is one of the delights of the Moto z series phones because they have magnetic batteries that can be swapped on and off with your bare hands without even having to open up a battery cover or power off the phone.