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>For reference I'm using sway. swayidle is an idle daemon, where the maintainer doesn't think that it matters whether its connected to power or not. You're supp

>For reference I'm using sway. swayidle is an idle daemon, where the maintainer doesn't think that it matters whether its connected to power or not. You're supposed to create your own scripts around it that handles ac connect and disconnects. >One of them doesn't allow you to toggle, so you have create your own toggle script that kills or restarts it. If you're not a fan of making scripts then sway (and wlsunset I assume) is not for you. My sway install is held together by a myriad of scripts - keybindings are handled by a script, starting programs via bemenu goes through a script, sway itself is started by a script, etc. That's just how this compositor and its ecosystem are designed - they're for people who want the software itself to do the smallest possible thing with the least possible assumptions so that the user can do whatever they want to fill in the rest.

ComputerGuru 4y ago
The problem isn’t that it’s held together by individual scripts and apps that one can replace or hack at. The problem is that none of these pieces ship in place. Ideally you’d have some sort of offering that gives you a reasonable starting place with all these composable pieces in place, and then you can hack/replace/add/remove as needed. Everyone starting from scratch doesn’t make sense. It’s like shipping a Unix system with no app doing it’s own paging because the devs rightly expect you to use some other tool to page output for you, but there’s no less/more installed (and no back buffer in the terminal or terminal emulator to boot). Then you complain and the answer is that you’re supposed to write your own (or research, download, compile, and install something someone else might have hacked up).
- uberduper 4y ago
  afaik there are various distros that will give you a preconfigured out of the box swaywm based desktop env. Garuda linux comes to mind. The sway wiki is pretty detailed and iirc has a helpful page full of options for various "not the compositor's job" tasks like notification daemon, app launcher, etc.
- lapinot 4y ago
  > The problem is that none of these pieces ship in place. Sway is not a desktop environment. What you are describing is a desktop environment. I too would like a sway-based desktop environment. Let's stop complaining that sway is not what it is or that somehow this is related to wayland. This whole thing is just a consequence that writing cohesive graphical/desktop software is tedious and that tinkerers cannot rely on the myriad of Xorg desktop environment, in particular the modular ones like lxde/xfce to mix and match components. > Then you complain and the answer is that you’re supposed to write your own Yes, obviously. No-one is saying this would be a bad project. And if you blatantly misunderstand their project's scope it's no wonder you're getting dry responses.
  - ComputerGuru 4y ago
    I am not saying sway isn’t allowed to do what they did. But the normal approach is for the 1st party dev to also provide reference implementations of supporting/complementing utilities to smooth adoption. No one is saying they have to be shipped as part of the compositor, obviously.
    - falseassertions 4y ago
      [dead]
    - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
      I don't see how being "just a compositor" has to do anything to "has to bundle complementing utilities", without mucking the whole thing and turning it into a desktop environment. Thought I agree that for most people, a desktop environment, "everything integrated, just change this specific thing" instead of "let me just DIY my entire environment from those separated parts" makes more sense.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      > But the normal approach... Says who? You're getting software for free, from someone who is not beholden to you for anything. Either you accept it as it is, or you fix it; that's the nature of open source. Whining about it on the internet is rude and disrespectful. If you can't be bothered, and want all this stuff included, or at the very least recommended or installed automatically on the side, switch to something else that does that for you. The alternative to taking a piece of open source as-is isn't "complain to the maintainer until they fulfill your wishes". That kind of thing is why open source maintainers burn out. You are not entitled to anything from them; the alternative is that the software doesn't exist at all.

ComputerGuru 4y ago

The problem isn’t that it’s held together by individual scripts and apps that one can replace or hack at. The problem is that none of these pieces ship in place. Ideally you’d have some sort of offering that gives you a reasonable starting place with all these composable pieces in place, and then you can hack/replace/add/remove as needed. Everyone starting from scratch doesn’t make sense. It’s like shipping a Unix system with no app doing it’s own paging because the devs rightly expect you to use some other tool to page output for you, but there’s no less/more installed (and no back buffer in the terminal or terminal emulator to boot). Then you complain and the answer is that you’re supposed to write your own (or research, download, compile, and install something someone else might have hacked up).

uberduper 4y ago
afaik there are various distros that will give you a preconfigured out of the box swaywm based desktop env. Garuda linux comes to mind. The sway wiki is pretty detailed and iirc has a helpful page full of options for various "not the compositor's job" tasks like notification daemon, app launcher, etc.
lapinot 4y ago
> The problem is that none of these pieces ship in place. Sway is not a desktop environment. What you are describing is a desktop environment. I too would like a sway-based desktop environment. Let's stop complaining that sway is not what it is or that somehow this is related to wayland. This whole thing is just a consequence that writing cohesive graphical/desktop software is tedious and that tinkerers cannot rely on the myriad of Xorg desktop environment, in particular the modular ones like lxde/xfce to mix and match components. > Then you complain and the answer is that you’re supposed to write your own Yes, obviously. No-one is saying this would be a bad project. And if you blatantly misunderstand their project's scope it's no wonder you're getting dry responses.
- ComputerGuru 4y ago
  I am not saying sway isn’t allowed to do what they did. But the normal approach is for the 1st party dev to also provide reference implementations of supporting/complementing utilities to smooth adoption. No one is saying they have to be shipped as part of the compositor, obviously.
  - falseassertions 4y ago
    [dead]
  - ElectricalUnion 4y ago
    I don't see how being "just a compositor" has to do anything to "has to bundle complementing utilities", without mucking the whole thing and turning it into a desktop environment. Thought I agree that for most people, a desktop environment, "everything integrated, just change this specific thing" instead of "let me just DIY my entire environment from those separated parts" makes more sense.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    > But the normal approach... Says who? You're getting software for free, from someone who is not beholden to you for anything. Either you accept it as it is, or you fix it; that's the nature of open source. Whining about it on the internet is rude and disrespectful. If you can't be bothered, and want all this stuff included, or at the very least recommended or installed automatically on the side, switch to something else that does that for you. The alternative to taking a piece of open source as-is isn't "complain to the maintainer until they fulfill your wishes". That kind of thing is why open source maintainers burn out. You are not entitled to anything from them; the alternative is that the software doesn't exist at all.