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> And if a tree falls in a forest with no one around, it does still make a sound. I don't think you'll like the reason why. It was Bishop Berkeley[1], who gave

> And if a tree falls in a forest with no one around, it does still make a sound. I don't think you'll like the reason why. It was Bishop Berkeley[1], who gave his name to Berkeley CA, that originally posited and answered this question, and his answer was that God is always around and, thus, among other things, hears everything, so the falling tree makes a sound. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Berkeley#Contributions_to_philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Berkeley#Contributions_...

sidlls 4y ago
That's not the reason why. The reason why is that the falling tree disturbs particles in the atmosphere while it falls (which makes a sound) and when it hits the ground (which makes another sound--both from the vibration of the ground/air interface and through the earth itself).
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  This is precisely what is happening. The whole philosophical debate is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Of course things happen even if a human doesn’t observe it. Then they have to make up something about a magical religious figure hearing the tree. All I can think of is the Monty Python skit “..pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth”
  - geoelectric 4y ago
    I always took the root of the debate to be that sound is an artifical quality we use to describe the characteristics of the air vibrations we perceive. Short of a lazier universe than we're willing to accept, it almost certainly did cause an effect, including harmonic vibrations, ones that are replicated around like echos, etc. It's just unclear if it's sound if there's nobody there to interpret it. Not saying I buy it one way or the other, just that it's the reason I never thought it was as stupid as you do. Extending this take back to thread root and then the objection, I always understood "speed of sound" to be more or less "speed of causalty filtered through a substrate", i.e. if you bump into this side, how long does it take that side to be affected by it? "Sound" is just one potential type of bump to be traveling, if we subjectively interpret the vibrations that eventually make it through to the other side that way.
andsoitis 4y ago
> God hears everything It is probably wrong to assume that God interfaces with the physical universe in the same way as us (and other living beings who perceive sound). They (God) may perceive vibrations of air particles in a way that we wouldn’t call “sound”. In fact, I’m pretty sure they have to otherwise they would be overwhelmed by all the noise they hear from everywhere all the time.
p1mrx 4y ago
> I don't think you'll like [some dead guy's] reason why. The first person to ask a question doesn't have a monopoly on the answer.
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
I'm fine with that reasoning; however from another point of view: The tree is a subject, too. For this particular instance, since the event is about 26,000 light years away, we could as easily say that it happened in 50,000 B.C., since that was the time on Earth when our light traveled to meet it.
- muontraveller 4y ago
  If God can hear the tree falling, then perhaps he’s listening in a 4th dimension of spatial reality. All but a 3D place so we could avoid time dilation and experience other planets in real-time.

sidlls 4y ago

That's not the reason why. The reason why is that the falling tree disturbs particles in the atmosphere while it falls (which makes a sound) and when it hits the ground (which makes another sound--both from the vibration of the ground/air interface and through the earth itself).

oceanplexian 4y ago
This is precisely what is happening. The whole philosophical debate is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Of course things happen even if a human doesn’t observe it. Then they have to make up something about a magical religious figure hearing the tree. All I can think of is the Monty Python skit “..pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth”
- geoelectric 4y ago
  I always took the root of the debate to be that sound is an artifical quality we use to describe the characteristics of the air vibrations we perceive. Short of a lazier universe than we're willing to accept, it almost certainly did cause an effect, including harmonic vibrations, ones that are replicated around like echos, etc. It's just unclear if it's sound if there's nobody there to interpret it. Not saying I buy it one way or the other, just that it's the reason I never thought it was as stupid as you do. Extending this take back to thread root and then the objection, I always understood "speed of sound" to be more or less "speed of causalty filtered through a substrate", i.e. if you bump into this side, how long does it take that side to be affected by it? "Sound" is just one potential type of bump to be traveling, if we subjectively interpret the vibrations that eventually make it through to the other side that way.

andsoitis 4y ago

> God hears everything It is probably wrong to assume that God interfaces with the physical universe in the same way as us (and other living beings who perceive sound). They (God) may perceive vibrations of air particles in a way that we wouldn’t call “sound”. In fact, I’m pretty sure they have to otherwise they would be overwhelmed by all the noise they hear from everywhere all the time.

p1mrx 4y ago

> I don't think you'll like [some dead guy's] reason why. The first person to ask a question doesn't have a monopoly on the answer.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

I'm fine with that reasoning; however from another point of view: The tree is a subject, too. For this particular instance, since the event is about 26,000 light years away, we could as easily say that it happened in 50,000 B.C., since that was the time on Earth when our light traveled to meet it.

muontraveller 4y ago
If God can hear the tree falling, then perhaps he’s listening in a 4th dimension of spatial reality. All but a 3D place so we could avoid time dilation and experience other planets in real-time.