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Am I unique in not romanticizing computer science? I see it more as a trade. There can certainly be some beauty to it. I’m sure coal miners hold some of their

Am I unique in not romanticizing computer science? I see it more as a trade. There can certainly be some beauty to it. I’m sure coal miners hold some of their own in special regard too.

seadan83 4y ago
There is beauty in just about any trade that is well done. To the extent this is romanticized is up to you. I'm not a big fan of the professionals that feel it is 100% trade. On the flip side, the 100% romantics are not ideal either IMHO - too focused on technology for technology sake.
mixmastamyk 4y ago
It sounds like you are thinking of software engineering, which is an adjacent field often conflated. CS is about pushing current boundaries and inventing the future.
throwaway675309 4y ago
Software development is a trade, if all you aspire to be is a WordPress or frontend developer then you don't need a fancy degree, you can just as easily go to a 6 to 8 week code camp for that. Computer science is a pathway for those that want to delve deeper, and that necessitates rigorous fundamentals in applied mathematics and information theory.
- simplotek 4y ago
  > Computer science is a pathway for those that want to delve deeper, and that necessitates rigorous fundamentals in applied mathematics and information theory. I dare say that one can go through a whole career as a software engineer without spending a single semester learning about algorithms, in the sense that you just start learning about them in a JIT fashion if/when they become an issue, which is rarely. Some of the O(X) trivia so much sought after in some interviewing circles is even fundamentally wrong when real world aspects such as problem size or CPU architecture come into play.
  - whynotminot 4y ago
    This is basically my career. I had a stable gig for my first handful+ of years after college and never much encountered the leetcode grind people talk about until recently. A lot of the O(X) stuff is self apparent when you're writing practical code: lotsa slow loops within loops == bad and should be avoided where possible. When I started doing job interviews it was a little bewildering how much some companies focused on this. I ended up taking a job whose interviews focused on more practical skills and also stressed a good culture fit and understanding of development practices. It feels like a place I'll be happier. I think you're right about the JIT aspect to this sort of thing--that's really what being an engineer is about in my experience. When you encounter a problem, figure out how to do it better. If my filter/sort/whatever is too slow for a specific application, I'll do some research and implement something more appropriate.
  - closeparen 4y ago
    Computer science != algorithms. There's also the whole systems branch! If you ever find yourself thinking about TCP, virtual memory, system calls, frame buffers, shaders, signatures, interpreters, compilers, query planners, etc. these are also things you could have studied and practiced building in a CS program.
berkle4455 4y ago
Well after they spend 4-8yrs of their life learning CS, damn right they’re going to romanticize and gatekeep it every chance they get. Meanwhile I agree with you, software engineering jobs are a trade 90% of the time. It’s why so many highly educated folks are being laid-off right now, while the doers keep-on building and making bank.
- anon7725 4y ago
  > while the doers keep-on building and making bank. It’s spelled Doerr
jamal-kumar 4y ago
Coal miners also do stuff like massively die in gas explosions and are kind of a poster child for labour exploitation. Wouldn't it be crazy if this line of work held the same prestige to hold in special regard?

Am I unique in not romanticizing computer science? I see it more as a trade. There can certainly be some beauty to it. I’m sure coal miners hold some of their own in special regard too.

seadan83 4y ago

There is beauty in just about any trade that is well done. To the extent this is romanticized is up to you. I'm not a big fan of the professionals that feel it is 100% trade. On the flip side, the 100% romantics are not ideal either IMHO - too focused on technology for technology sake.

mixmastamyk 4y ago

It sounds like you are thinking of software engineering, which is an adjacent field often conflated. CS is about pushing current boundaries and inventing the future.

throwaway675309 4y ago

Software development is a trade, if all you aspire to be is a WordPress or frontend developer then you don't need a fancy degree, you can just as easily go to a 6 to 8 week code camp for that. Computer science is a pathway for those that want to delve deeper, and that necessitates rigorous fundamentals in applied mathematics and information theory.

simplotek 4y ago
> Computer science is a pathway for those that want to delve deeper, and that necessitates rigorous fundamentals in applied mathematics and information theory. I dare say that one can go through a whole career as a software engineer without spending a single semester learning about algorithms, in the sense that you just start learning about them in a JIT fashion if/when they become an issue, which is rarely. Some of the O(X) trivia so much sought after in some interviewing circles is even fundamentally wrong when real world aspects such as problem size or CPU architecture come into play.
- whynotminot 4y ago
  This is basically my career. I had a stable gig for my first handful+ of years after college and never much encountered the leetcode grind people talk about until recently. A lot of the O(X) stuff is self apparent when you're writing practical code: lotsa slow loops within loops == bad and should be avoided where possible. When I started doing job interviews it was a little bewildering how much some companies focused on this. I ended up taking a job whose interviews focused on more practical skills and also stressed a good culture fit and understanding of development practices. It feels like a place I'll be happier. I think you're right about the JIT aspect to this sort of thing--that's really what being an engineer is about in my experience. When you encounter a problem, figure out how to do it better. If my filter/sort/whatever is too slow for a specific application, I'll do some research and implement something more appropriate.
- closeparen 4y ago
  Computer science != algorithms. There's also the whole systems branch! If you ever find yourself thinking about TCP, virtual memory, system calls, frame buffers, shaders, signatures, interpreters, compilers, query planners, etc. these are also things you could have studied and practiced building in a CS program.

berkle4455 4y ago

Well after they spend 4-8yrs of their life learning CS, damn right they’re going to romanticize and gatekeep it every chance they get. Meanwhile I agree with you, software engineering jobs are a trade 90% of the time. It’s why so many highly educated folks are being laid-off right now, while the doers keep-on building and making bank.

anon7725 4y ago
> while the doers keep-on building and making bank. It’s spelled Doerr

jamal-kumar 4y ago

Coal miners also do stuff like massively die in gas explosions and are kind of a poster child for labour exploitation. Wouldn't it be crazy if this line of work held the same prestige to hold in special regard?