5 ms·

Yup, Microsoft can't even keep straight their account management, yet they are insisting on depreciating the local-only accounts. I strictly use the local-only

by toss1 4y ago

Yup, Microsoft can't even keep straight their account management, yet they are insisting on depreciating the local-only accounts. I strictly use the local-only setup. I'm sort of OK if they still leave a relatively trivial backdoor to do this, but if they ever flat require an online account, I'm out, hard. This is partially due to wanting to avoid the hassle and management of yet-another-forking-online-acct-IDGAF-about, but also because I have some machines controlling industrial processes (CNC machines, custom cutting machines, etc.) that I keep entirely off any network for security & safety reasons (yes, moving anything to/from those machines is all sneaker-net; simple, works, and my shop doesn't yet have the scale to justify that kind of networking/security/admin overhead). I just hope that MS engineering is not stupid or powerless enough to allow MS marketing & MBAs to fully kill off the local account. This entire attitude of exploiting customers by requiring spurious internet accounts & connections is making me start to think that the Internet is all a huge mistake. If that approach takes over, the world will literally be worse than before the Internet in every important way (and there are some solid arguments that it already is worse).

jtode 4y ago
The internet was not designed to deal with money, or security. The internet is designed strictly for information transfer from one place to another with extreme efficiency. At that, it still excels and is no mistake. The problem is all the people using it for money.
- toss1 4y ago
  Very accurate and succinct! Someone said a long time ago that "The love of money is the root of all evil". I'm not a follower of any particular religion, but that guy sure got it right on that point! Also, the only time he was recorded being violent was when he kicked the money-changers out of the temple. How do we kick out the money-changers from the Internet? Back to the roots of info transfer... it seems the tagging devices+apps tell us that we have achieved critical mass of node/relay density for an underground mesh network to work, if we can get enough people to run it . . .
  - jtode 4y ago
    I have no solutions, I'm not even convinced that my statement really encapsulates the problem in a real way. Humans are very difficult. I'm reminded of that speech made by Hugo Weaving's character in The Matrix, about how the original matrix had been very utopian, with everyone living happy and harmonious lives, and the subjects rejected the illusion on a deep enough level to break it. I don't think one should look to Hollywood for good philosophical thinking, but I think he was onto something there. If I could make one law get passed, I would outlaw algorithms on social media feeds (edit: and search engine results). Let them collect the data, let them target ads. I don't think those things are inherently harmful, or at least, no moreso than the old ads and surveillance. But the seizing and algorithmic manipulation of the feeds, with the accompanying incentive that the whole thing fails if it doesn't turn a profit, is far more toxic than the gatekeeping of the old media emperors. The great promise of the internet in the 90s was that consumers of internet media would have complete control over our feeds, and get only the things we want and demand. We have received the exact opposite, because people with money want to put their money to work, rather than work.
throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
> they are insisting on depreciating the local-only accounts That's just.... Insane. This is going to be a disaster. I'm so sorry, Windows users.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  You already need to open the command line and disconnect the internet at just the right moment to be able to install windows 11 without an account. You can't start without an online connection, so it's not as as easy as just airgapping the install from the get go (at least on the normal ISO provided by microsoft). I like windows but that was extremely annoying when I needed Win11 in a VM.
andrepd 4y ago
> I'm sort of OK if they still leave a relatively trivial backdoor to do this, but if they ever flat require an online account, I'm out, hard Sounds like a huge pain to deal with. Why not switch to Linux and be done with it? Genuine question.
- toss1 4y ago
  Primarily because the CAD app I use (Rhino3D) doesn't have a native Linux version ('tho it supposedly runs on WINE), and the CAM software doesn't seem to have anyone running it on Linux. Plus, at the outset of another startup, we decided to go Open-Source everything, and tried to setup a real-time version of Linux and the CNC control software. All of it supposedly up and running with only a few dozen steps to setup in the people supposedly running it. Despite decades in networking and a bit of Linux experience, I quickly got swamped in the massive undocumented bugs in setup/config/complile, and brought in a guy who had a full-time Linux shop, and who I knew from working with him previously that he was very good. He thought 'it's a new version, but no problem'. A month later, we still had nothing running and the investor/partner pulled the plug. So the swamp of poorly-documented / undocumented / mis-documented hiccoughs literally killed that startup — death by 1000 cuts. Sure, it is probably better now, 15 years later. But so is this environment, UNLESS they tie it to another online acct. So, basically, I'm pretty much now in the business of slinging atoms instead of bits, and the overhead is no fun, and just not worth it (yet). Plus, the overhead of working around the MS carp turned out to be pretty small. Just disable the Wireless at the right time in the W11Pro install (I think it is worse in teh Home version).
- alasdair_ 4y ago
  Games are the main reason for me. I want max performance on my high end gaming pc and I want all the things to just work, including 7.1 surround sound (and atmos later) and HDR and gsync and all my accessories and all the anticheat etc. I know valve have done great stuff but is it good enough yet to run everything on a AAA game on 4k ultra with hdr, gsync and 144hz?
  - katbyte 4y ago
    I left windows for ps4/5 and mac a decade ago but have been toying with the idea of a beefy proxmox server with pci passthrough for a nice windows gaming setup which going by LTT videos is more then capable enough to run AAA game. It’s still windows but at least it’s a vm and your hardware can be shared with a primary Linux desktop vm etc

by toss1 4y ago

jtode 4y ago

The internet was not designed to deal with money, or security. The internet is designed strictly for information transfer from one place to another with extreme efficiency. At that, it still excels and is no mistake. The problem is all the people using it for money.

toss1 4y ago
Very accurate and succinct! Someone said a long time ago that "The love of money is the root of all evil". I'm not a follower of any particular religion, but that guy sure got it right on that point! Also, the only time he was recorded being violent was when he kicked the money-changers out of the temple. How do we kick out the money-changers from the Internet? Back to the roots of info transfer... it seems the tagging devices+apps tell us that we have achieved critical mass of node/relay density for an underground mesh network to work, if we can get enough people to run it . . .
- jtode 4y ago
  I have no solutions, I'm not even convinced that my statement really encapsulates the problem in a real way. Humans are very difficult. I'm reminded of that speech made by Hugo Weaving's character in The Matrix, about how the original matrix had been very utopian, with everyone living happy and harmonious lives, and the subjects rejected the illusion on a deep enough level to break it. I don't think one should look to Hollywood for good philosophical thinking, but I think he was onto something there. If I could make one law get passed, I would outlaw algorithms on social media feeds (edit: and search engine results). Let them collect the data, let them target ads. I don't think those things are inherently harmful, or at least, no moreso than the old ads and surveillance. But the seizing and algorithmic manipulation of the feeds, with the accompanying incentive that the whole thing fails if it doesn't turn a profit, is far more toxic than the gatekeeping of the old media emperors. The great promise of the internet in the 90s was that consumers of internet media would have complete control over our feeds, and get only the things we want and demand. We have received the exact opposite, because people with money want to put their money to work, rather than work.

throwawaaarrgh 4y ago

> they are insisting on depreciating the local-only accounts That's just.... Insane. This is going to be a disaster. I'm so sorry, Windows users.

mardifoufs 4y ago
You already need to open the command line and disconnect the internet at just the right moment to be able to install windows 11 without an account. You can't start without an online connection, so it's not as as easy as just airgapping the install from the get go (at least on the normal ISO provided by microsoft). I like windows but that was extremely annoying when I needed Win11 in a VM.

andrepd 4y ago

> I'm sort of OK if they still leave a relatively trivial backdoor to do this, but if they ever flat require an online account, I'm out, hard Sounds like a huge pain to deal with. Why not switch to Linux and be done with it? Genuine question.

toss1 4y ago
Primarily because the CAD app I use (Rhino3D) doesn't have a native Linux version ('tho it supposedly runs on WINE), and the CAM software doesn't seem to have anyone running it on Linux. Plus, at the outset of another startup, we decided to go Open-Source everything, and tried to setup a real-time version of Linux and the CNC control software. All of it supposedly up and running with only a few dozen steps to setup in the people supposedly running it. Despite decades in networking and a bit of Linux experience, I quickly got swamped in the massive undocumented bugs in setup/config/complile, and brought in a guy who had a full-time Linux shop, and who I knew from working with him previously that he was very good. He thought 'it's a new version, but no problem'. A month later, we still had nothing running and the investor/partner pulled the plug. So the swamp of poorly-documented / undocumented / mis-documented hiccoughs literally killed that startup — death by 1000 cuts. Sure, it is probably better now, 15 years later. But so is this environment, UNLESS they tie it to another online acct. So, basically, I'm pretty much now in the business of slinging atoms instead of bits, and the overhead is no fun, and just not worth it (yet). Plus, the overhead of working around the MS carp turned out to be pretty small. Just disable the Wireless at the right time in the W11Pro install (I think it is worse in teh Home version).
alasdair_ 4y ago
Games are the main reason for me. I want max performance on my high end gaming pc and I want all the things to just work, including 7.1 surround sound (and atmos later) and HDR and gsync and all my accessories and all the anticheat etc. I know valve have done great stuff but is it good enough yet to run everything on a AAA game on 4k ultra with hdr, gsync and 144hz?
- katbyte 4y ago
  I left windows for ps4/5 and mac a decade ago but have been toying with the idea of a beefy proxmox server with pci passthrough for a nice windows gaming setup which going by LTT videos is more then capable enough to run AAA game. It’s still windows but at least it’s a vm and your hardware can be shared with a primary Linux desktop vm etc