4 ms·

Sure, but there's also a question of bootstrapping. Can you build electronics that work underwater? Sure. But it's a lot harder than building electronics that w

Sure, but there's also a question of bootstrapping. Can you build electronics that work underwater? Sure. But it's a lot harder than building electronics that work on land. The barrier is a lot higher. Also, simple things like... Primitive humans used tree branches to build lances and things to fight predators. They also used them to dig and to build homes. There are no trees underwater. Octopuses have soft bodies and are not equipped for digging in the ways that humans were, especially without tree branches to help them. Another obvious difference: one of the key technological discoveries that made humanity happen is the discovery of fire. It would be somewhat difficult to make fire underwater. Maybe it really is just easier on land. That being said, many species have gone from sea to land or land to sea during their evolution. Not impossible that some octopus descendant could become a land species in the far future... But I have a feeling that evolving bones or a hard shell would he helpful there. cue movie scene where an octopus, drawn by strange unheard noises, surfaces and witnesses nuclear bombs exploding just above the New York skyline from far away, and the dawn of a new era begins

eternalban 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/fish/bioluminescence https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/fish/bioluminescence I'm wavering over the two perspectives here. It does make sense that a water environment places far too many barriers on all sorts of natural processes, chemical, & physical, that seem necessary for any sort of technology. On the other hand we do have another form of "terra-"centric bias here, this time regarding the 'alien' -- the essense of the question considered imo -- environment and its alien creatures. So maybe there are in fact possibility spaces and progressive trajectories for 'high technology and science' via entirely novel takes on environmental manipulation. So, sure, no fire under water, but they have electricity [and light sources] (!!) on tap. Maybe Octopus sages will hit on 'eletricity' before 'fire'. Maybe they will learn to farm and control large collections of eels to power stuff [or build logic gates ..]. Maybe they will develop PSI powers (a bit woo) but who knows. p.s. turns out in fact they do use other creatures as 'tools': https://octonation.com/octopedia/blanket-octopus/ https://octonation.com/octopedia/blanket-octopus/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o%27_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o%27_war
- Aloha 4y ago
  Biocomputers if ever developed will certainly be in a liquid solution, probably of light saline.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    These guys need to first figure out how to store and convey information. I think this is their biggest obstacle. Whales possibly convey transgenerational knowledge via songs. They need something like that. We humans could possibly assist them in this by placing devices in their environment that could help them get over that hump. They apparently have sense of smell, so maybe something using chemicals for an alphabet, or pictograms. Since they have great visual processing, a combo of chemically coated (from a finite set of smells) image tokens with distinct images (from a finite set of diagrams) could work and possibly convey complex ideas (c x i basic semantic units).

eternalban 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/fish/bioluminescence https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/fish/bioluminescence I'm wavering over the two perspectives here. It does make sense that a water environment places far too many barriers on all sorts of natural processes, chemical, & physical, that seem necessary for any sort of technology. On the other hand we do have another form of "terra-"centric bias here, this time regarding the 'alien' -- the essense of the question considered imo -- environment and its alien creatures. So maybe there are in fact possibility spaces and progressive trajectories for 'high technology and science' via entirely novel takes on environmental manipulation. So, sure, no fire under water, but they have electricity [and light sources] (!!) on tap. Maybe Octopus sages will hit on 'eletricity' before 'fire'. Maybe they will learn to farm and control large collections of eels to power stuff [or build logic gates ..]. Maybe they will develop PSI powers (a bit woo) but who knows. p.s. turns out in fact they do use other creatures as 'tools': https://octonation.com/octopedia/blanket-octopus/ https://octonation.com/octopedia/blanket-octopus/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o%27_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o%27_war

Aloha 4y ago
Biocomputers if ever developed will certainly be in a liquid solution, probably of light saline.
- eternalban 4y ago
  These guys need to first figure out how to store and convey information. I think this is their biggest obstacle. Whales possibly convey transgenerational knowledge via songs. They need something like that. We humans could possibly assist them in this by placing devices in their environment that could help them get over that hump. They apparently have sense of smell, so maybe something using chemicals for an alphabet, or pictograms. Since they have great visual processing, a combo of chemically coated (from a finite set of smells) image tokens with distinct images (from a finite set of diagrams) could work and possibly convey complex ideas (c x i basic semantic units).