5 ms·

Looks more like a cad drawing than a map. I'm sorry but as a rather prolific former cartographer (I've made thousands of maps for hundreds of clients) what is t

Looks more like a cad drawing than a map. I'm sorry but as a rather prolific former cartographer (I've made thousands of maps for hundreds of clients) what is the goal of this map? Showing terminal locations? Where to park? Size relative to surroundings? Location of manholes? Noise compatibility?

ericpauley 4y ago
I’m sorry but as a pilot who routinely uses airport diagrams what specific weakness are you seeing? As you are probably aware, not all maps are intended to have some beautiful aesthetic. This map is quite akin in style to the layout of airport maps (diagrams) published for actual pilot use.
- dtgriscom 4y ago
  You derided the question, but then answered it: this is for pilot use.
  - ericpauley 4y ago
    I wouldn't necessarily say it is. It's an automated visualization of machine-readable data on airports. If you were processing this data, you'd want a visualization like this.
- billfor 4y ago
  Well for one thing the taxiway letters and runway markings are missing. If it’s a “map” I would expect to use it for directions.
  - ericpauley 4y ago
    It is a visualization of community-sourced (OpenStreetMap) data on airports. This data is clearly supported as Frankfurt does have many surfaces labeled. Working towards making this data available is useful even if every single item isn't there.
  - jjwiseman 4y ago
    Zoom in a little to see taxiway names.
- ecommerceguy 4y ago
  As a frequent flyer on small aircraft (nearly all of one side of my family has worked in aviation: cessna, boeing, piper, beech, embraer) - this looks nothing like the charts I'm used to viewing.
  - the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
    That doesn’t answer the question: what is wrong with the map? As a non pilot I can’t say that I find an airport diagram from the FAA more insightful: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2302/00375AD.PDF https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2302/00375AD.PDF
    - repiret 4y ago
      I am a pilot, and I compared the FAA diagram of SFO that you pointed out with the openairportmap.org one. Looking at the map itself: * Taxiway labels aren't very readable, and I need to zoom in quite a bit for them to even be consistently displayed. * For that matter, the yellow lines seem to cover a lot of things that aren't taxiways, and seem to extend into non-movement areas (areas outside the purview of ground control/tower), and for that reason, they make the actual taxyways harder to see. * The runways are labled in a way that requires consulting the compass rose to interpret - "10L/28R". "10L/28R" is the name for that strip of tarmac, but when you're landing with a heading of 284º, it's called "28R" and when you're landing the other way, it's called "10L". Compare that with the FAA diagram, which labels them clearly at the landing side of the runway, the same way the numbers are painted on the ground. * The openairportmap diagram lacks runway length and width. * OpenAirportMap lacks the location of the displaced thresholds on the 28 and 1 runways. * OpenAirportMap lacks the location of the runaway airplane catchers (EMAS) at the ends of the 1/19 runways. * OpenAirportMap lacks any field elevation information * OpenAirportMap doesn't have an indication of north, or of the magnetic variance. * SFO doesn't have a VOR on-field, but if it did, it's location would be printed on FAA map, but not openairport * The FAA map has the ATIS (weather), Tower, Ground Control, and Approach Control frequencies listed on it. Overall, I would say the openairport map is not useful to a pilot. Which I think goes to the GP's point: "what is the goal of this map?" It's not to help a pilot.
- cmurf 4y ago
  I'm confused why it shows detail like holding position markings, but not taxiways or hot spots. And it conflates locations using different hold short markings (ILS and runway).
  - ericpauley 4y ago
    In Frankfurt at least I see the ILS critical areas tagged with "holding_position:type: ILS". For instance south of arrival end 25C. Looking at aerial imagery these do correctly align with the ILS and hold-short markings. Edit: it does appear that hold lines are mis-tagged in some spots, e.g. north of arrival end 25C.
  - jjwiseman 4y ago
    It's just showing OpenStreetMap data. Anyone can edit and add data. The data that's in there is just what enthusiasts have added in the past 20 years. If no one added it, it's not there. You can add data if you like.
bhargav 4y ago
This has all the information a pilot would need to take off and land from an airport. Airport maps are usually available for free in US but at least I have yet to find some for some Canadian airports. The Canadian organizations sell those. There are paid apps you can get. This looks like a good free alternative. Addendum: someone mentioned Airnav. Just to see the lack of open and up to date data available freely, look at SFO [1] and look at YYZ [2]. SFO has an airport diagram showing taxy ways and runways and some other meta information. nothing for YYZ. 1: https://www.airnav.com/airport/SFO https://www.airnav.com/airport/SFO 2: https://www.airnav.com/airport/CYYZ https://www.airnav.com/airport/CYYZ
- wlonkly 4y ago
  It seems like whether or not it has what a pilot needs depends on how thorough the OpenStreetMap contributors have been for a particular airport. (As an extreme example, CYHZ in Halifax seems to be missing completely, but the tiny CYTN in Trenton, NS is diagrammed).

ericpauley 4y ago

I’m sorry but as a pilot who routinely uses airport diagrams what specific weakness are you seeing? As you are probably aware, not all maps are intended to have some beautiful aesthetic. This map is quite akin in style to the layout of airport maps (diagrams) published for actual pilot use.

dtgriscom 4y ago
You derided the question, but then answered it: this is for pilot use.
- ericpauley 4y ago
  I wouldn't necessarily say it is. It's an automated visualization of machine-readable data on airports. If you were processing this data, you'd want a visualization like this.
billfor 4y ago
Well for one thing the taxiway letters and runway markings are missing. If it’s a “map” I would expect to use it for directions.
- ericpauley 4y ago
  It is a visualization of community-sourced (OpenStreetMap) data on airports. This data is clearly supported as Frankfurt does have many surfaces labeled. Working towards making this data available is useful even if every single item isn't there.
- jjwiseman 4y ago
  Zoom in a little to see taxiway names.
ecommerceguy 4y ago
As a frequent flyer on small aircraft (nearly all of one side of my family has worked in aviation: cessna, boeing, piper, beech, embraer) - this looks nothing like the charts I'm used to viewing.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
  That doesn’t answer the question: what is wrong with the map? As a non pilot I can’t say that I find an airport diagram from the FAA more insightful: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2302/00375AD.PDF https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2302/00375AD.PDF
  - repiret 4y ago
    I am a pilot, and I compared the FAA diagram of SFO that you pointed out with the openairportmap.org one. Looking at the map itself: * Taxiway labels aren't very readable, and I need to zoom in quite a bit for them to even be consistently displayed. * For that matter, the yellow lines seem to cover a lot of things that aren't taxiways, and seem to extend into non-movement areas (areas outside the purview of ground control/tower), and for that reason, they make the actual taxyways harder to see. * The runways are labled in a way that requires consulting the compass rose to interpret - "10L/28R". "10L/28R" is the name for that strip of tarmac, but when you're landing with a heading of 284º, it's called "28R" and when you're landing the other way, it's called "10L". Compare that with the FAA diagram, which labels them clearly at the landing side of the runway, the same way the numbers are painted on the ground. * The openairportmap diagram lacks runway length and width. * OpenAirportMap lacks the location of the displaced thresholds on the 28 and 1 runways. * OpenAirportMap lacks the location of the runaway airplane catchers (EMAS) at the ends of the 1/19 runways. * OpenAirportMap lacks any field elevation information * OpenAirportMap doesn't have an indication of north, or of the magnetic variance. * SFO doesn't have a VOR on-field, but if it did, it's location would be printed on FAA map, but not openairport * The FAA map has the ATIS (weather), Tower, Ground Control, and Approach Control frequencies listed on it. Overall, I would say the openairport map is not useful to a pilot. Which I think goes to the GP's point: "what is the goal of this map?" It's not to help a pilot.
cmurf 4y ago
I'm confused why it shows detail like holding position markings, but not taxiways or hot spots. And it conflates locations using different hold short markings (ILS and runway).
- ericpauley 4y ago
  In Frankfurt at least I see the ILS critical areas tagged with "holding_position:type: ILS". For instance south of arrival end 25C. Looking at aerial imagery these do correctly align with the ILS and hold-short markings. Edit: it does appear that hold lines are mis-tagged in some spots, e.g. north of arrival end 25C.
- jjwiseman 4y ago
  It's just showing OpenStreetMap data. Anyone can edit and add data. The data that's in there is just what enthusiasts have added in the past 20 years. If no one added it, it's not there. You can add data if you like.

bhargav 4y ago

This has all the information a pilot would need to take off and land from an airport. Airport maps are usually available for free in US but at least I have yet to find some for some Canadian airports. The Canadian organizations sell those. There are paid apps you can get. This looks like a good free alternative. Addendum: someone mentioned Airnav. Just to see the lack of open and up to date data available freely, look at SFO [1] and look at YYZ [2]. SFO has an airport diagram showing taxy ways and runways and some other meta information. nothing for YYZ. 1: https://www.airnav.com/airport/SFO https://www.airnav.com/airport/SFO 2: https://www.airnav.com/airport/CYYZ https://www.airnav.com/airport/CYYZ

wlonkly 4y ago
It seems like whether or not it has what a pilot needs depends on how thorough the OpenStreetMap contributors have been for a particular airport. (As an extreme example, CYHZ in Halifax seems to be missing completely, but the tiny CYTN in Trenton, NS is diagrammed).