5 ms·

That is wonderful for your friends, but I don't know what they have to do with this individual you have never met. My uncle has lived with MS for almost 50 year

That is wonderful for your friends, but I don't know what they have to do with this individual you have never met. My uncle has lived with MS for almost 50 years and is in the final stages of life unfortunately, which I guess gives me the same level of credibility. I would not advise a stranger on the internet to inject themselves with something based on one study done on mice. I'm also not going to tell them what to do with their own body. But "run it by your doctor first" seems like a reasonable thing to suggest, even if they ultimately decide to do it anyway.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
> I would not advise a stranger on the internet to inject themselves with something based on one study done on mice. I wouldn’t either. > But "run it by your doctor first" seems like a reasonable thing to suggest, even if they ultimately decide to do it anyway. Sounds like we’re mostly on the same page. I just trust the people I know with serious illness to know this stuff already, even if they get zealous about something that might improve their lives. Because even my friend with MS who has a long history of impulsive mistakes isn’t just injecting random things just based on news stories.
neltnerb 4y ago
I'm not going to judge anyone (I have MS) but it's extraordinarily difficult to analyze evidence when the disease progression is random flares. If I have a flare, is it because a medication isn't working? Or is it working just fine and I would have had five otherwise? Not really any way to know. I would not take anything my doctor didn't say would at least not cause harm. But the calculus is different for other people. Among groups of people with MS I've chatted with there is kind of an unspoken rule to not advise treatment because we all know that we are all different in treatment, symptoms, probably cause... you can get off into the weeds pretty easily. Lipolic acid, vinpocetine, curcumin, lots of things are anti-inflammatory or good for neuropathy. I've had people recommend getting controlled bee stings, hensbane, obviously meditation for reducing stress and cortisol, and if we go in the direction of alternative methods (which I know people with MS who have used) you get acupuncture and yoga and herbal medicines. CBD in Europe is a treatment, I'm sure other cannabinoids would help different people in different ways too. I just have to tune it out, I want to spend my attention on what I'm good at and enjoy, and trust my [MS specialist] doctor to let me know about new treatments. Study says "inflammation decreased" which is great. But lots of things do that, so the question is how much... I wouldn't trust it without a fair bit of statistical evidence without my doctor telling me that whatever random supplement is safe enough to risk.
- zamnos 4y ago
  Do what's right for you, but never mind Europe, CBD is an accepted treatment in all US states. More specifically: there are no longer any states outright banning the use of CBD. This is not any sort of comment on MS and CBD, mind you. https://cfah.org/cbd-legal-states/ https://cfah.org/cbd-legal-states/ I'm glad you have a specialist doctor whom you trust. MS is a relatively known quantity, having being first described by a neurologist in 1868. Not all diseases and not sufferers have such a privilege. For something newer at the edge of medical sience, like AIDs was in the 1980s or like Long Covid is now, patients are finding doctors of only limited use, and the FDA an impediment rather than helpful. If there was a cure for MS available in Mexico, would you not start a Dallas Buyers Club for others afflicted?
  - neltnerb 4y ago
    Honestly, I trust the FDA to mostly do a good job and would wait -- unless the time involved would mean that waiting would render the treatment moot. In that case it seems like there's more reason to try, at first, but there is a real cost. The cost of time spent focusing on enjoying what you have in the search for a better that may or may not come. And the cost of spending your days dissatisfied that it's not better than it is. I don't think chasing medical miracles is a good way to spend my days. If the treatment is safe and works I'm confused why you believe the FDA would prevent it's use, is that a common scenario?
    - zamnos 4y ago
      Dissatisfied is one thing. Wouldn't you rather not spend your days having flares at all though? A trip down to Mexico and, like, $50k for a stem cell treatment (HSCT) could be the cure for your ills. It's definitely not got FDA approval, and your mainstream doctor definitely going to advise you against it. And I'm some random Internet commenter so definitely don't remotely read this as treatment advice. But next time you have a flare up, tell me what you wouldn't do to never have them again.
      - neltnerb 4y ago

eyelidlessness 4y ago

> I would not advise a stranger on the internet to inject themselves with something based on one study done on mice. I wouldn’t either. > But "run it by your doctor first" seems like a reasonable thing to suggest, even if they ultimately decide to do it anyway. Sounds like we’re mostly on the same page. I just trust the people I know with serious illness to know this stuff already, even if they get zealous about something that might improve their lives. Because even my friend with MS who has a long history of impulsive mistakes isn’t just injecting random things just based on news stories.

neltnerb 4y ago

I'm not going to judge anyone (I have MS) but it's extraordinarily difficult to analyze evidence when the disease progression is random flares. If I have a flare, is it because a medication isn't working? Or is it working just fine and I would have had five otherwise? Not really any way to know. I would not take anything my doctor didn't say would at least not cause harm. But the calculus is different for other people. Among groups of people with MS I've chatted with there is kind of an unspoken rule to not advise treatment because we all know that we are all different in treatment, symptoms, probably cause... you can get off into the weeds pretty easily. Lipolic acid, vinpocetine, curcumin, lots of things are anti-inflammatory or good for neuropathy. I've had people recommend getting controlled bee stings, hensbane, obviously meditation for reducing stress and cortisol, and if we go in the direction of alternative methods (which I know people with MS who have used) you get acupuncture and yoga and herbal medicines. CBD in Europe is a treatment, I'm sure other cannabinoids would help different people in different ways too. I just have to tune it out, I want to spend my attention on what I'm good at and enjoy, and trust my [MS specialist] doctor to let me know about new treatments. Study says "inflammation decreased" which is great. But lots of things do that, so the question is how much... I wouldn't trust it without a fair bit of statistical evidence without my doctor telling me that whatever random supplement is safe enough to risk.

zamnos 4y ago
Do what's right for you, but never mind Europe, CBD is an accepted treatment in all US states. More specifically: there are no longer any states outright banning the use of CBD. This is not any sort of comment on MS and CBD, mind you. https://cfah.org/cbd-legal-states/ https://cfah.org/cbd-legal-states/ I'm glad you have a specialist doctor whom you trust. MS is a relatively known quantity, having being first described by a neurologist in 1868. Not all diseases and not sufferers have such a privilege. For something newer at the edge of medical sience, like AIDs was in the 1980s or like Long Covid is now, patients are finding doctors of only limited use, and the FDA an impediment rather than helpful. If there was a cure for MS available in Mexico, would you not start a Dallas Buyers Club for others afflicted?
- neltnerb 4y ago
  Honestly, I trust the FDA to mostly do a good job and would wait -- unless the time involved would mean that waiting would render the treatment moot. In that case it seems like there's more reason to try, at first, but there is a real cost. The cost of time spent focusing on enjoying what you have in the search for a better that may or may not come. And the cost of spending your days dissatisfied that it's not better than it is. I don't think chasing medical miracles is a good way to spend my days. If the treatment is safe and works I'm confused why you believe the FDA would prevent it's use, is that a common scenario?
  - zamnos 4y ago
    Dissatisfied is one thing. Wouldn't you rather not spend your days having flares at all though? A trip down to Mexico and, like, $50k for a stem cell treatment (HSCT) could be the cure for your ills. It's definitely not got FDA approval, and your mainstream doctor definitely going to advise you against it. And I'm some random Internet commenter so definitely don't remotely read this as treatment advice. But next time you have a flare up, tell me what you wouldn't do to never have them again.
    - neltnerb 4y ago