5 ms·

Would you pay to rent a car for 5 days if you were only going to drive it for 2 days? You wouldn't, because you care about your own money. Why is it that we p

by JPKab 4y ago

Would you pay to rent a car for 5 days if you were only going to drive it for 2 days? You wouldn't, because you care about your own money. Why is it that we pretend like "shareholders" are these mythical beasts that are different than us? I have money in the stock market. You probably do as well. Why does your money suddenly become ok to waste if it's invested in a company? 5 days a week, yes, everyone gets their own desk. You don't want them having their productivity hurt by being crammed in like sardines. But in this case, let's be real. Nobody but the most OCD germophobe is going to have lower productivity because they are sitting in a desk that someone else was in a day before.

Adraghast 4y ago
Read the comments on this post alone. It affects morale. Morale affect productivity, no germaphobia required.
lovich 4y ago
Would you pay to keep inventory on the shelves when you could do JiT delivery of parts and keep expenditure on stocks at a minimum? Did not having spare capacity work out for car companies when the logistics chain was disrupted during Covid? I bring this up as an example because you seem to be(and this is entirely my interpretation that could be incorrect) implying that the spare capacity of the space per person is always a negative to be ruthlessly optimized out. I would posit that it has benefits like morale that need to be evaluated as a tradeoff. That's also ignoring the whole point that they demanded the workers return to the office and then didn't invest in making that possible, so now workers are dealing with the worst of both worlds. >Nobody but the most OCD germophobe is going to have lower productivity because they are sitting in a desk that someone else was in a day before. I wouldn't expect germaphobia to be the issue, it's the constant change that prevents employees from getting into a routine. We all already know that software engineers need to get into the zone to be productive, which takes time and becoming comfortable with what they are working on. How easy is that going to be when you have to adapt to a new environment everytime you go to work and reset up your workstation in the manner that works for the engineer?
Imnimo 4y ago
I go even further - I OWN a car I don't drive every day. I don't even split it with my neighbor.
silverwasthere 4y ago
I absolutely had lower productivity sharing a desk last time I was required to. The chair was always adjusted wrong. May as well just stay home. I'm not OCD but I've been seeing doctors for my back problems since I was 18 so frankly you're an ableist. Enjoy your health while you can.
- JPKab 4y ago
  Ableist because I didn't factor in that adjusting a chair is a horrific injustice? Can we just agree that that is ridiculous and absurd and comically dramatic? The ADA legally mandates that accommodations be made for people that need them and if you're not in that category you're being ridiculous and if you are this doesn't even apply to you.
  - alasarmas 4y ago
    Ableist because you assume that either the effort of getting the chair / desk / monitor adjusted correctly is trivial, or the consequences of not adjusting are minimal. You are being ableist right now.
  - silverwasthere 4y ago
    The chair doesn't get adjusted until it has already caused pain. Thanks for your concern. Actually I'm going to lay into you for this. Do you have any fucking idea what its like to not be able to get an erection? Not to feel your legs, shoulders, or hips for days? To not be able to tell when you have to poop? And all it takes is a fucking $200 chair that they leave the fuck alone to be just fine? I don't need the goddamn ada. All I need is a little trial and error to get my spine aligned right so I can sit for 8 hours without "SUPRISE you cant feel your DICK" and then to have that chair left the fuck alone. Dude you will be so fucked when you hit 60. You have no idea how much you will hate the world for the lack of consideration it shows you.
foolinaround 4y ago
> Nobody but the most OCD germophobe is going to have lower productivity because they are sitting in a desk that someone else was in a day before. maybe, at the end of the day, the cleaning crew does a deep clean of the surfaces etc..
xracy 4y ago
This is such a stupid short-term saving for a long-term cost. It's frustrating to me how focused shareholders are on saving a quick buck via stock buy-backs, employee layoffs, leaving real estate agreements. It's a bunch of number misdirection to try and make it look like the company is earning more money when they're just losing a little bit less. https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/google-7billion-realestate https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/google-7billion-re... <- Google invested $7b in Real Estate 2 years ago. When the next economic boom happens they're going to hire as many people as they can and claim they don't have space for them. And the entire time they're fucking with employee morale because it's not a number they can put on a spreadsheet. But it will have a cost. They just won't see it until it's too late.
6510 4y ago
I have my own desk at home and I'm not sharing! I'm quite used to spending part of my paycheck on things like renting my own toilet, my own bathroom, kitchen with my own coffee maker and while it is used for a much larger part of the day my bedroom is only used < 1/3 of the day. I have no idea why we are doing this! > Would you pay to rent a car for 5 days if you were only going to drive it for 2 days? You wouldn't, because you care about your own money. No man! People actually BUY cars so that they can keep them all to themselves! It gets more absurd I assure you. The justification for most of them is to drive to work! I think investors know we are doing this with their money?
- JPKab 4y ago
  You can drive your car anytime you want, and you do. It’s not limited to a designated schedule of 2 days a week and 8 days a month and never on holidays. Same with everything else you said in your dishonest, bad faith comparison. Personal is not business. I’m a cofounder at my current startup so I guess I think differently about a business paying for things that are needlessly idle for no reason, but you do you. We don’t think paying for office space makes sense at all and don’t. But if we did, no way are we flushing cash down the toilet for overly indulged devs when that cash can go to raises and bonuses for top performers (morale). And if a top performer wants a dedicated, non shared desk, well ok. We will offer them a choice between a salary boost or the desk.
  - lovich 4y ago
    Implying that people have their own assigned space to work in is something "...for overly indulged devs..." is a frankly amazingly hypocritical response from what seems to be an overly entitled business owner. You walk it back slightly by saying that you offer the choice between the cost savings or the desk to the worker, but somehow I doubt that the worker's are getting the whole cost savings or that you wouldn't start bucketing them as no longer a top performer for making what you view as a sub optimal choice.
  - 6510 4y ago
    I often joke to my migrant coworkers that they don't understand, they think you work in order to live but here in the west we live to work. Everything is about work. We allow people to have a home and a car... wait for it... so that they can work! If salaries are to small to survive people stop working, if they are to big they also stop working. We've tailored the salary to squeeze out maximum productivity. Where homes and/or food are cheap employees are also cheap and visa versa. This is no accident! I applaud that you are not renting office space, your programmers already have a desk and a computer and their salary is such that they can and will replace it. You are going to pay for that. You have to or they will go work some place else where the salaries are more calibrated. If you will ever do offices you will need a good excuse for it. What that might be we don't know but you will need something in return for sacrificing productivity. As everything is about work that what the proverbial top performer wants is probably related to work too! If they are more productive if you give them their own office you would have to figure out if it is worth it. It would have to be some office if they are to feel at home there. Or actually, if they are to be more comfortable than at home. The whole premise is absurd, the product they make (if not interrupted) is 1's and 0's it can easily be shipped all over the world. 2 desks will make it slower and needlessly complex. Maybe the migrants are right and we are wrong. Maybe the show should be about living not about working. One time a coworker who barely speaks the language was asked if he could do a 7 day work week again. He reluctantly agreed and asked "but when do I live?" Yeah, the old ways deserve every bit of mockery. The revolution has to happen now or it wont happen at all.

by JPKab 4y ago

Adraghast 4y ago

Read the comments on this post alone. It affects morale. Morale affect productivity, no germaphobia required.

lovich 4y ago

Would you pay to keep inventory on the shelves when you could do JiT delivery of parts and keep expenditure on stocks at a minimum? Did not having spare capacity work out for car companies when the logistics chain was disrupted during Covid? I bring this up as an example because you seem to be(and this is entirely my interpretation that could be incorrect) implying that the spare capacity of the space per person is always a negative to be ruthlessly optimized out. I would posit that it has benefits like morale that need to be evaluated as a tradeoff. That's also ignoring the whole point that they demanded the workers return to the office and then didn't invest in making that possible, so now workers are dealing with the worst of both worlds. >Nobody but the most OCD germophobe is going to have lower productivity because they are sitting in a desk that someone else was in a day before. I wouldn't expect germaphobia to be the issue, it's the constant change that prevents employees from getting into a routine. We all already know that software engineers need to get into the zone to be productive, which takes time and becoming comfortable with what they are working on. How easy is that going to be when you have to adapt to a new environment everytime you go to work and reset up your workstation in the manner that works for the engineer?

Imnimo 4y ago

I go even further - I OWN a car I don't drive every day. I don't even split it with my neighbor.

silverwasthere 4y ago

I absolutely had lower productivity sharing a desk last time I was required to. The chair was always adjusted wrong. May as well just stay home. I'm not OCD but I've been seeing doctors for my back problems since I was 18 so frankly you're an ableist. Enjoy your health while you can.

JPKab 4y ago
Ableist because I didn't factor in that adjusting a chair is a horrific injustice? Can we just agree that that is ridiculous and absurd and comically dramatic? The ADA legally mandates that accommodations be made for people that need them and if you're not in that category you're being ridiculous and if you are this doesn't even apply to you.
- alasarmas 4y ago
  Ableist because you assume that either the effort of getting the chair / desk / monitor adjusted correctly is trivial, or the consequences of not adjusting are minimal. You are being ableist right now.
- silverwasthere 4y ago
  The chair doesn't get adjusted until it has already caused pain. Thanks for your concern. Actually I'm going to lay into you for this. Do you have any fucking idea what its like to not be able to get an erection? Not to feel your legs, shoulders, or hips for days? To not be able to tell when you have to poop? And all it takes is a fucking $200 chair that they leave the fuck alone to be just fine? I don't need the goddamn ada. All I need is a little trial and error to get my spine aligned right so I can sit for 8 hours without "SUPRISE you cant feel your DICK" and then to have that chair left the fuck alone. Dude you will be so fucked when you hit 60. You have no idea how much you will hate the world for the lack of consideration it shows you.

foolinaround 4y ago

> Nobody but the most OCD germophobe is going to have lower productivity because they are sitting in a desk that someone else was in a day before. maybe, at the end of the day, the cleaning crew does a deep clean of the surfaces etc..

xracy 4y ago

This is such a stupid short-term saving for a long-term cost. It's frustrating to me how focused shareholders are on saving a quick buck via stock buy-backs, employee layoffs, leaving real estate agreements. It's a bunch of number misdirection to try and make it look like the company is earning more money when they're just losing a little bit less. https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/google-7billion-realestate https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/google-7billion-re... <- Google invested $7b in Real Estate 2 years ago. When the next economic boom happens they're going to hire as many people as they can and claim they don't have space for them. And the entire time they're fucking with employee morale because it's not a number they can put on a spreadsheet. But it will have a cost. They just won't see it until it's too late.

6510 4y ago

I have my own desk at home and I'm not sharing! I'm quite used to spending part of my paycheck on things like renting my own toilet, my own bathroom, kitchen with my own coffee maker and while it is used for a much larger part of the day my bedroom is only used < 1/3 of the day. I have no idea why we are doing this! > Would you pay to rent a car for 5 days if you were only going to drive it for 2 days? You wouldn't, because you care about your own money. No man! People actually BUY cars so that they can keep them all to themselves! It gets more absurd I assure you. The justification for most of them is to drive to work! I think investors know we are doing this with their money?

JPKab 4y ago
You can drive your car anytime you want, and you do. It’s not limited to a designated schedule of 2 days a week and 8 days a month and never on holidays. Same with everything else you said in your dishonest, bad faith comparison. Personal is not business. I’m a cofounder at my current startup so I guess I think differently about a business paying for things that are needlessly idle for no reason, but you do you. We don’t think paying for office space makes sense at all and don’t. But if we did, no way are we flushing cash down the toilet for overly indulged devs when that cash can go to raises and bonuses for top performers (morale). And if a top performer wants a dedicated, non shared desk, well ok. We will offer them a choice between a salary boost or the desk.
- lovich 4y ago
  Implying that people have their own assigned space to work in is something "...for overly indulged devs..." is a frankly amazingly hypocritical response from what seems to be an overly entitled business owner. You walk it back slightly by saying that you offer the choice between the cost savings or the desk to the worker, but somehow I doubt that the worker's are getting the whole cost savings or that you wouldn't start bucketing them as no longer a top performer for making what you view as a sub optimal choice.
- 6510 4y ago
  I often joke to my migrant coworkers that they don't understand, they think you work in order to live but here in the west we live to work. Everything is about work. We allow people to have a home and a car... wait for it... so that they can work! If salaries are to small to survive people stop working, if they are to big they also stop working. We've tailored the salary to squeeze out maximum productivity. Where homes and/or food are cheap employees are also cheap and visa versa. This is no accident! I applaud that you are not renting office space, your programmers already have a desk and a computer and their salary is such that they can and will replace it. You are going to pay for that. You have to or they will go work some place else where the salaries are more calibrated. If you will ever do offices you will need a good excuse for it. What that might be we don't know but you will need something in return for sacrificing productivity. As everything is about work that what the proverbial top performer wants is probably related to work too! If they are more productive if you give them their own office you would have to figure out if it is worth it. It would have to be some office if they are to feel at home there. Or actually, if they are to be more comfortable than at home. The whole premise is absurd, the product they make (if not interrupted) is 1's and 0's it can easily be shipped all over the world. 2 desks will make it slower and needlessly complex. Maybe the migrants are right and we are wrong. Maybe the show should be about living not about working. One time a coworker who barely speaks the language was asked if he could do a 7 day work week again. He reluctantly agreed and asked "but when do I live?" Yeah, the old ways deserve every bit of mockery. The revolution has to happen now or it wont happen at all.