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I'm sorry, but any society that has 60% living below the poverty line, and is ran by a totalitarian regime with minimal respect for basic human rights is absolu

by Salgat 4y ago

I'm sorry, but any society that has 60% living below the poverty line, and is ran by a totalitarian regime with minimal respect for basic human rights is absolutely backwards. South Korea, one of the most advanced societies in the world, is basically what North Korea could be if not for its brutal dictatorship. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4

smcl 4y ago
I think you're missing the point here. The expectations are through the floor, people think of the country as effectively useless and laughable, and yet it's been able to stake out a niche in cryptocurrency attacks, there may be some reasonable competency in cybersecurity attacks too. It doesn't mean it's developed (it's not), it doesn't mean it's to a country to be admired (it's not), it simply means you need to look at the world with a bit of nuance, and not with the FOX News "NORTH KOREA BAD" viewpoint because it's clearly not quite that simple. If you want to boil it down that way you need to think "NORTH KOREA BAD BUT WITH SOME SURPRISING NICHE COMPETENCIES" You're quoting articles about poverty in North Korea at me as if I'm in denial about this, which is weird because I start and end my comment talking about how shit life is probably like there. It's a bit like you read a couple of words, got excited that you spotted one of The Reds and decided to call in an airstrike
- Salgat 4y ago
  You're not making any point, you're just trying to shut down any criticisms of North Korea as not being "nuanced enough". It's a backwards country with a few niches which yes includes international theft of billions of dollars. You can find the good in anything, even a steaming pile of shit can still provide nutrition to soil. Every country has nice things about it (however few), that's stating the obvious.
  - smcl 4y ago
    I’ve tried to use the story to suggest people look beyond simple stereotypes and think about a country and a people without the prejudice we may have casually accumulated through our lives. I’ve tried to empathise a bit with the people, and I’ve shared a couple of resources that might help do the same. I don’t know what you’re doing, feels a little bit like you’re trying to beat a statement out of me, or tell me I’m guilty of WrongThink.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > You're not making any point, you're just trying to shut down any criticisms of North Korea as not being "nuanced enough". He is making a point: it's foolish to assume North Korea is just a bunch of starving people with no heat, living in dilapidated Soviet-style buildings. They've built nukes. They're pretty successful at hacking. It has capabilities the defy the stereotype.
    - Salgat 4y ago
      And I acknowledged that. We all know NK has a small social elite that does these things, no one has said otherwise. It's not an excuse to shut down their criticisms as a backwards country.
      - kelipso 4y ago
        Criticizing North Korea here is like saying water is wet or something. It's so incredibly boring. People aren't trying to "shut down criticism", they're trying to have an interesting conversation, hopefully without some bore saying "you do know that water is wet, right??" over and over again.
        Salgat 4y ago
        Reread the original conversation. It was about how North Korea was able to achieve some rather impressive technical achievements. It wasn't until the conversation was derailed by a "well akshually NK is not that bad" that we started having to go in detail on why NK is a, yes, poor and backwards country. I didn't want or expect to have to discuss this, but if someone wants to challenge the notion, I'm going to respond.

by Salgat 4y ago

smcl 4y ago

I think you're missing the point here. The expectations are through the floor, people think of the country as effectively useless and laughable, and yet it's been able to stake out a niche in cryptocurrency attacks, there may be some reasonable competency in cybersecurity attacks too. It doesn't mean it's developed (it's not), it doesn't mean it's to a country to be admired (it's not), it simply means you need to look at the world with a bit of nuance, and not with the FOX News "NORTH KOREA BAD" viewpoint because it's clearly not quite that simple. If you want to boil it down that way you need to think "NORTH KOREA BAD BUT WITH SOME SURPRISING NICHE COMPETENCIES" You're quoting articles about poverty in North Korea at me as if I'm in denial about this, which is weird because I start and end my comment talking about how shit life is probably like there. It's a bit like you read a couple of words, got excited that you spotted one of The Reds and decided to call in an airstrike

Salgat 4y ago
You're not making any point, you're just trying to shut down any criticisms of North Korea as not being "nuanced enough". It's a backwards country with a few niches which yes includes international theft of billions of dollars. You can find the good in anything, even a steaming pile of shit can still provide nutrition to soil. Every country has nice things about it (however few), that's stating the obvious.
- smcl 4y ago
  I’ve tried to use the story to suggest people look beyond simple stereotypes and think about a country and a people without the prejudice we may have casually accumulated through our lives. I’ve tried to empathise a bit with the people, and I’ve shared a couple of resources that might help do the same. I don’t know what you’re doing, feels a little bit like you’re trying to beat a statement out of me, or tell me I’m guilty of WrongThink.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > You're not making any point, you're just trying to shut down any criticisms of North Korea as not being "nuanced enough". He is making a point: it's foolish to assume North Korea is just a bunch of starving people with no heat, living in dilapidated Soviet-style buildings. They've built nukes. They're pretty successful at hacking. It has capabilities the defy the stereotype.
  - Salgat 4y ago
    And I acknowledged that. We all know NK has a small social elite that does these things, no one has said otherwise. It's not an excuse to shut down their criticisms as a backwards country.
    - kelipso 4y ago
      Criticizing North Korea here is like saying water is wet or something. It's so incredibly boring. People aren't trying to "shut down criticism", they're trying to have an interesting conversation, hopefully without some bore saying "you do know that water is wet, right??" over and over again.
      - Salgat 4y ago
        Reread the original conversation. It was about how North Korea was able to achieve some rather impressive technical achievements. It wasn't until the conversation was derailed by a "well akshually NK is not that bad" that we started having to go in detail on why NK is a, yes, poor and backwards country. I didn't want or expect to have to discuss this, but if someone wants to challenge the notion, I'm going to respond.