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>> expression of freedom[...]based in denying freedom to everyone else > You've just summed up the entire American ethos, sadly. That summation is just tenden

>> expression of freedom[...]based in denying freedom to everyone else > You've just summed up the entire American ethos, sadly. That summation is just tendentious framing of the concept of tradeoffs. If the situation were changed so "pedestrian[s] or cyclist[s]" don't have to make "concessions" to cars, that could also be framed as and "expression of freedom[...]based in denying freedom to everyone else." And that framing would be less tendentious than the OP's, because in America the pedestrians and cyclists are a vocal minority.

xhkkffbf 4y ago
Cyclists especially have a superiority complex. I always get voted down here when I point out that between precipitation, the winter darkness, the cold and age, there aren't many days when very many people can commute by bike. Oh, sure, there are a few great spring days. And there are some strong, hearty folks in their 20s who can cycle through the winter, but for the most part, it's not very practical for many people on many days. Now electric scooters and eBikes will change the equation a bit, but there are plenty of purists who hate on them too. They seem to feel they're sort of like lite versions of cars.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  Literally none of the issues you mention are detriments to commuting safely by bicycle. None. The fact that you got downvoted should perhaps give you pause for reflection. A more reasonable criticism is the danger to bikes from neeedlessly massive cars and pickup trucks. Or the danger from bike lanes that are not cleared of snow.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    That’s a very one dimensional view. I love my bike, but riding in the winter is a miserable experience that I would avoid if any alternative existed. It’s not even a safety issue, it’s simply uncomfortable and expensive to get outfitted with appropriate gear. Not everyone lives in San Diego. That doesn’t mean that robust bicycle infrastructure shouldn’t exist.
    - svpk 4y ago
      I do bike regularly in winter in a fairly cold city (it was -8 C today) and would disagree with this. The only gear I’ve bought specifically for winter cycling as opposed to the rest of the year are glasses and a headband. I’d probably recommend a balaclava for someone without a beard. I bought fancy biking glasses, but $5 safety glasses would be passable. Other than that I just wear the clothes fit for wherever I’m going. (Ie jeans, maybe long underwear, a couple layers, and a puffy coat). The comfort part is subjective and I can’t invalidate your experience of course, but I personally find it at worst comparable to the first five to ten minutes of being in a car on a cold day before the car warms up. And on anything but the coldest days I often find I’m a quite comfortable temperature. Though it’s possible to over/under dress and then be hot or cold during the commute. Not that people can’t drive in the winter if they want, but it often feels where I am that people just can’t conceive of the idea that biking in winter is a thing anyone would do. But there’s plenty of evidence that some percentage of people will choose to bike in winter if it’s viable (ie there’s good bike infrastructure).
      - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
        The most uncomfortable part is touching the cold frame without gloves to carry it up into my condo. Because handling of keys with gloves is fumbly. OTOH I can just put them back on for the short while. Just forgotten it sometimes, or thinking, naa, not necessary. All the other stuff? Shrug
  - mansion7 4y ago
    Or the danger to cars and trucks caused by tiny bicycles, as bicyclists tend to have no liability insurance to pay for damages, to which they are frequently the proximate cause by failing to yield right of way.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - xhkkffbf 4y ago
    Consider the following people: (1) a pregnant woman, (2) 60 y.o. with diabetes, (3) 16 y.o. female, (4) a veteran with an amputated leg, (5) an ex-athlete with a bum knee, (6) anyone with a 50 pound package etc.... Now imagine it's mid-January and the boss asks the person to stay a bit later, say, until 7pm. It's a new moon and so it's going to be pitch black by then. There might even be a bit light precipitation or maybe some ice leftover from a storm earlier in the week. Would you say that the issues I mentioned shouldn't matter to any of these people? Or would you still say that they should suck it up and saddle up because only bike haters believe all of that stuff about ice or crime or darkness? Face it: many people don't want to commute by bike because they have good reasons to believe the ride will be dangerous and maybe even deadly.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

xhkkffbf 4y ago

Cyclists especially have a superiority complex. I always get voted down here when I point out that between precipitation, the winter darkness, the cold and age, there aren't many days when very many people can commute by bike. Oh, sure, there are a few great spring days. And there are some strong, hearty folks in their 20s who can cycle through the winter, but for the most part, it's not very practical for many people on many days. Now electric scooters and eBikes will change the equation a bit, but there are plenty of purists who hate on them too. They seem to feel they're sort of like lite versions of cars.

eldaisfish 4y ago
Literally none of the issues you mention are detriments to commuting safely by bicycle. None. The fact that you got downvoted should perhaps give you pause for reflection. A more reasonable criticism is the danger to bikes from neeedlessly massive cars and pickup trucks. Or the danger from bike lanes that are not cleared of snow.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  That’s a very one dimensional view. I love my bike, but riding in the winter is a miserable experience that I would avoid if any alternative existed. It’s not even a safety issue, it’s simply uncomfortable and expensive to get outfitted with appropriate gear. Not everyone lives in San Diego. That doesn’t mean that robust bicycle infrastructure shouldn’t exist.
  - svpk 4y ago
    I do bike regularly in winter in a fairly cold city (it was -8 C today) and would disagree with this. The only gear I’ve bought specifically for winter cycling as opposed to the rest of the year are glasses and a headband. I’d probably recommend a balaclava for someone without a beard. I bought fancy biking glasses, but $5 safety glasses would be passable. Other than that I just wear the clothes fit for wherever I’m going. (Ie jeans, maybe long underwear, a couple layers, and a puffy coat). The comfort part is subjective and I can’t invalidate your experience of course, but I personally find it at worst comparable to the first five to ten minutes of being in a car on a cold day before the car warms up. And on anything but the coldest days I often find I’m a quite comfortable temperature. Though it’s possible to over/under dress and then be hot or cold during the commute. Not that people can’t drive in the winter if they want, but it often feels where I am that people just can’t conceive of the idea that biking in winter is a thing anyone would do. But there’s plenty of evidence that some percentage of people will choose to bike in winter if it’s viable (ie there’s good bike infrastructure).
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      The most uncomfortable part is touching the cold frame without gloves to carry it up into my condo. Because handling of keys with gloves is fumbly. OTOH I can just put them back on for the short while. Just forgotten it sometimes, or thinking, naa, not necessary. All the other stuff? Shrug
- mansion7 4y ago
  Or the danger to cars and trucks caused by tiny bicycles, as bicyclists tend to have no liability insurance to pay for damages, to which they are frequently the proximate cause by failing to yield right of way.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- xhkkffbf 4y ago
  Consider the following people: (1) a pregnant woman, (2) 60 y.o. with diabetes, (3) 16 y.o. female, (4) a veteran with an amputated leg, (5) an ex-athlete with a bum knee, (6) anyone with a 50 pound package etc.... Now imagine it's mid-January and the boss asks the person to stay a bit later, say, until 7pm. It's a new moon and so it's going to be pitch black by then. There might even be a bit light precipitation or maybe some ice leftover from a storm earlier in the week. Would you say that the issues I mentioned shouldn't matter to any of these people? Or would you still say that they should suck it up and saddle up because only bike haters believe all of that stuff about ice or crime or darkness? Face it: many people don't want to commute by bike because they have good reasons to believe the ride will be dangerous and maybe even deadly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]