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It really does seem that way... I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces at the expense of Ukrainians and "Allied" mi

It really does seem that way... I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces at the expense of Ukrainians and "Allied" military equipment (instead of some theoretical war where the US send their soldiers _and_ equipment on the field, and the resulting PR nightmares, etc. that would cause) - essentially weakening Russia's military to a point so that Russia can't respond as aggressively to western expansionism or continue to meddle in western affairs as strongly as they have been. I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in, and I wish Russia would stop attacking Ukraine. Unfortunately mentioning the former makes you a "putin-apologist" even though there's more than enough things to attend to in the west instead of sending trillions of dollars overseas and continuing to fund the industrial military complex - almost like it's a convenient excuse to help distract people how much they're getting screwed over at home - but that's getting into conspiracy theorist territory, which I'd rather not go down. The fastest way out of the war is negotiation unfortunately. It's only going to get bloodier as both sides get more desperate to win...

fabian2k 4y ago
The Ukraine is in Europe, it is on the borders of the EU. And there are other former members of the Soviet Union that are now part of NATO and the EU. This is absolutely a conflict we have an enormous stake in. Do you think we should not help Ukraine, and not supply them with weapons and leave them to fend for themselves?
JohnFen 4y ago
> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are. But even ignoring that, I also think we do have a stake in this. > The fastest way out of the war is negotiation unfortunately Russia wants no negotiation that doesn't result in them stealing territory from Ukraine. You can't negotiate with that.
- andrey123 4y ago
  > Russia wants no negotiation that doesn't result in them stealing territory from Ukraine. You can't negotiate with that. You can negotiate with that, people were and are doing this all the time. The problem is that it very likely would result in just a pause and further (probably worse) conflict later.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  [flagged]
- miguelazo 4y ago
  > I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are. The US is literally prolonging the conflict by shoveling guns, “advisors” and intelligence into the fight. It’s nothing but a proxy war, using the Ukrainians as pawns. And the longer it goes on, the more territory Russia will expect/need to keep.
kibwen 4y ago
> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in, and I wish Russia would stop attacking Ukraine. Unfortunately, since the latter has happened, there's no moral high ground to be gained by "staying out" of the conflict. Russia started this war. Russia could end it, today, by leaving.
- gordian-mind 4y ago
  [flagged]
yks 4y ago
The West have their own interests surely but this war is fought by Ukrainians on their own collective volition. Negotiation is therefore also should happen on their own volition. Even with the slowly trickling and insufficient Western military aid, Ukrainians still prefer to take a chance to preserve their land, statehood and culture. People hate the Western MIC for a reason but in the end desire to avoid a genocide has to be stronger than hate for the MIC.
jen20 4y ago
> western expansionism Pretty sure you just revealed your agenda there.
wonderwonder 4y ago
"I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces" Of course they are. These weapon systems were built to defeat Russia and now they are being used for just that with the bonus of 0 risk to US lives. With that said the US is not making Ukraine fight, Ukraine wants to fight and is begging for the weapons that the West is providing and more of them. The Ukrainians are not puppets, we don't get to take away their agency. They are a free people fighting to remain that way while an insane person tries to bury them in the bodies of his soldiers. "I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in" I would argue that everyone has a stake in preventing big countries from using force to just take chunks of weaker countries. "almost like it's a convenient excuse to help distract people how much they're getting screwed over at home" People are not stupid, they are more than capable of holding multiple ideas and foci in their heads at the same time. The war could end tomorrow, Putin just has to pack up and leave. In the mean time he is decimating a generation of young men and the myth of Russia as a super power. He is also stealing tens of thousands of children.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  The US (and their Neonazi Azov Allies) is absolutely making Ukraine fight. They have undermined diplomatic solutions at multiple points that were satisfactory even to Zelensky. Ukrainians are being used to advance US hegemonic and LNG interests, and it’s disgusting.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    Interesting, can you show me the video of Zelensky saying the terms are acceptable but the US won't let him accept and are forcing everyone to fight to the death? Or are you just making this up? Also your focus on the political orientation of a battalion that pretty much fought to the death to stop the Russian invasion is pretty telling. Should Ukraine have told them not to fight? Sorry we would rather lose the war, have our daughters raped, get tortured to death and let Russia keep stealing our kids because our potential allies are racist? Russia is pardoning rapists and murdererers if they agree to fight for them. But partnering with Racists is worse right? What the us is doing is more disgusting than the invading Russians, about the same, less?

fabian2k 4y ago

The Ukraine is in Europe, it is on the borders of the EU. And there are other former members of the Soviet Union that are now part of NATO and the EU. This is absolutely a conflict we have an enormous stake in. Do you think we should not help Ukraine, and not supply them with weapons and leave them to fend for themselves?

JohnFen 4y ago

> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are. But even ignoring that, I also think we do have a stake in this. > The fastest way out of the war is negotiation unfortunately Russia wants no negotiation that doesn't result in them stealing territory from Ukraine. You can't negotiate with that.

andrey123 4y ago
> Russia wants no negotiation that doesn't result in them stealing territory from Ukraine. You can't negotiate with that. You can negotiate with that, people were and are doing this all the time. The problem is that it very likely would result in just a pause and further (probably worse) conflict later.
ekianjo 4y ago
[flagged]
miguelazo 4y ago
> I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are. The US is literally prolonging the conflict by shoveling guns, “advisors” and intelligence into the fight. It’s nothing but a proxy war, using the Ukrainians as pawns. And the longer it goes on, the more territory Russia will expect/need to keep.

kibwen 4y ago

> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in, and I wish Russia would stop attacking Ukraine. Unfortunately, since the latter has happened, there's no moral high ground to be gained by "staying out" of the conflict. Russia started this war. Russia could end it, today, by leaving.

gordian-mind 4y ago
[flagged]

yks 4y ago

The West have their own interests surely but this war is fought by Ukrainians on their own collective volition. Negotiation is therefore also should happen on their own volition. Even with the slowly trickling and insufficient Western military aid, Ukrainians still prefer to take a chance to preserve their land, statehood and culture. People hate the Western MIC for a reason but in the end desire to avoid a genocide has to be stronger than hate for the MIC.

jen20 4y ago

> western expansionism Pretty sure you just revealed your agenda there.

wonderwonder 4y ago

"I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces" Of course they are. These weapon systems were built to defeat Russia and now they are being used for just that with the bonus of 0 risk to US lives. With that said the US is not making Ukraine fight, Ukraine wants to fight and is begging for the weapons that the West is providing and more of them. The Ukrainians are not puppets, we don't get to take away their agency. They are a free people fighting to remain that way while an insane person tries to bury them in the bodies of his soldiers. "I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in" I would argue that everyone has a stake in preventing big countries from using force to just take chunks of weaker countries. "almost like it's a convenient excuse to help distract people how much they're getting screwed over at home" People are not stupid, they are more than capable of holding multiple ideas and foci in their heads at the same time. The war could end tomorrow, Putin just has to pack up and leave. In the mean time he is decimating a generation of young men and the myth of Russia as a super power. He is also stealing tens of thousands of children.

miguelazo 4y ago
The US (and their Neonazi Azov Allies) is absolutely making Ukraine fight. They have undermined diplomatic solutions at multiple points that were satisfactory even to Zelensky. Ukrainians are being used to advance US hegemonic and LNG interests, and it’s disgusting.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Interesting, can you show me the video of Zelensky saying the terms are acceptable but the US won't let him accept and are forcing everyone to fight to the death? Or are you just making this up? Also your focus on the political orientation of a battalion that pretty much fought to the death to stop the Russian invasion is pretty telling. Should Ukraine have told them not to fight? Sorry we would rather lose the war, have our daughters raped, get tortured to death and let Russia keep stealing our kids because our potential allies are racist? Russia is pardoning rapists and murdererers if they agree to fight for them. But partnering with Racists is worse right? What the us is doing is more disgusting than the invading Russians, about the same, less?