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I'd be completely in favor of this... if first the politicians, lawmakers, and bureaucrats were all held to the same standard.

dragonwriter 4y ago
The combination of open records and open meetings laws in many state governments largely do hold state and local officials to rules like this.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  True, but the practical reality parallels the regulations mentioned above: the rules are not being enforced fully, and there do not appear to be enough real-world consequences to prevent individuals from breaking them.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Is there specific government meeting or record you have in mind, that legally should have been public, but isn't? Generally we have enough proof of politicians doing/saying deplorable things. We don't have enough voters punishing their politicians for misbehaviour.
KMag 4y ago
Eventually, Big Brother turns on everyone.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  They created big brother. Creation turns on it's creator.
gameman144 4y ago
This seems really interesting to me. The US Constitution was only able to come about due to closed door discussion and debate, and that was one of the most positive outcomes in history for liberal democracy. There are legitimate arguments for open discussions and records, but they can absolutely lead to a stifling of compromise and spur polarization.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> if first the politicians, lawmakers, and bureaucrats were all held to the same standard Then you will have engineered a world free of compromise. Every meeting becomes posturing, because every proposed concession becomes a liability before it can be considered by the other side. (And you know they're similarly constrained.) We're now learning the Cuban missile crisis was not resolved through blind boldness, but through the sort of open dialogue only possible over covert channels [1][2]. [1] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba-cuban-missile-crisis/2022-10-28/cuban-missile-crisis-coverup-kennedy-adlai-stevenson https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba-cuban-missile-c... [2] https://mondediplo.com/2023/02/12cuban-missile-crisis https://mondediplo.com/2023/02/12cuban-missile-crisis

dragonwriter 4y ago

The combination of open records and open meetings laws in many state governments largely do hold state and local officials to rules like this.

voakbasda 4y ago
True, but the practical reality parallels the regulations mentioned above: the rules are not being enforced fully, and there do not appear to be enough real-world consequences to prevent individuals from breaking them.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Is there specific government meeting or record you have in mind, that legally should have been public, but isn't? Generally we have enough proof of politicians doing/saying deplorable things. We don't have enough voters punishing their politicians for misbehaviour.

KMag 4y ago

Eventually, Big Brother turns on everyone.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
They created big brother. Creation turns on it's creator.

gameman144 4y ago

This seems really interesting to me. The US Constitution was only able to come about due to closed door discussion and debate, and that was one of the most positive outcomes in history for liberal democracy. There are legitimate arguments for open discussions and records, but they can absolutely lead to a stifling of compromise and spur polarization.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> if first the politicians, lawmakers, and bureaucrats were all held to the same standard Then you will have engineered a world free of compromise. Every meeting becomes posturing, because every proposed concession becomes a liability before it can be considered by the other side. (And you know they're similarly constrained.) We're now learning the Cuban missile crisis was not resolved through blind boldness, but through the sort of open dialogue only possible over covert channels [1][2]. [1] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba-cuban-missile-crisis/2022-10-28/cuban-missile-crisis-coverup-kennedy-adlai-stevenson https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba-cuban-missile-c... [2] https://mondediplo.com/2023/02/12cuban-missile-crisis https://mondediplo.com/2023/02/12cuban-missile-crisis