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It's so strange to me how opposed to 4 day work week most of the comments here on HN are. It seems like the main grievance people have is how businesses will be

It's so strange to me how opposed to 4 day work week most of the comments here on HN are. It seems like the main grievance people have is how businesses will be affected (despite the study showing negligible or positive impact), while downplaying or ignoring the huge quality of life improvements reported. A business is just a lifeless entity with very little meaning, while your time is the single most meaningful thing to you. Why on earth wouldn't you be singing the positives of this study?

corbulo 4y ago
Because you can find a study saying almost anything today. We live in an information rich world. It causes people to favor their anecdotes more. My question is, are a lot of the 'benefits' simply because people are contrasting it to a 5 day work week? Much of the logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could be applied to a 3 day work week once people get used to 4 days. I'm not seeing anything unique about 4 days that makes it objectively superior. The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so lets work less!
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Less work leading to greater morale with negligible impact on productivity highly suggests that the extra workday is bullshit and should be done away with. Maybe that's also true of three days? I'm all for trying it. If it isn't, fine, that's a good argument not to do it.
  - corbulo 4y ago
    Or maybe there are other relationships at play? Could it be not because its the 5th day, but because its the 'final stretch' to the weekend and would therefore apply to any final day of any workweek? In my experience, i've seen the same behavior before holiday weekends. Should workweeks be 3 days on this evidence? Should workweeks be dictated by productivity on the final day? Why? Is 50% productivity better than 0? Should the only important consideration about a company be morale? Should morale be directly tied to quarterly earnings? Why or why not?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      Dude, the whole point of this thread is that we literally tested this and reduction to a 4-day from a 5-day was shown to have a negligible impact on productivity! It's like you're arguing from some other reality, what the actual fuck!?
      - corbulo 4y ago
        There's innumerable market sectors where 4 day work weeks wouldn't work. It's proof of how half baked the idea is that it wasn't even addressed. It makes the broadest generalizations with no hedging.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        You can argue flaws with the study all you want, that's valid, but it isn't at all what you were arguing up until now.
        corbulo 4y ago
        Those are all points that none of the studies on this subject address. Because they're crap studies. The premise is flawed in every one of them.
- renjimen 4y ago
  > Because you can find a study saying almost anything today. That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically significant cohort. > Much of the logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could be applied to a 3 day work week once people get used to 4 days. How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the optimal number? It's just some historical compromise we settled on with no scientific support, which is the aim of studies like the one in the article. > The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so lets work less! The argument is less time at work = (greater morale + similar/better business outcomes)
  - corbulo 4y ago
    >That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically significant cohort. I never said it was anecdotal. Quite the opposite. Do you know what p hacking is? The number of methods to distort data without detection is too many to count. It's just a fact of life if you're exposed to enough studies on nearly any subject. Appeals to authority are just that. >How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the optimal number? It's just some historical compromise we settled on with no scientific support, which is the aim of studies like the one in the article. Why not 6? Or 8? Or 2? 1? Define scientific support in this context. Going with a blanket approach to say 4 days a week should be the norm for every industry is quite unscientific. 4 day work weeks for any on call industry would be absurd. >The argument is less time at work = (greater morale + similar/better business outcomes) Then why aren't the businesses that already employ it outcompeting fortune 500 companies? Why isn't there clear evidence in the business themselves (being more competitive in their fields)? Why is it only the studies that come up with these results?
    - renjimen 4y ago
      > Do you know what p hacking is? Yes, I work in statistics. P-hacking can be detected and should be exposed during proper peer review and by providing underlying data and methods for reproducibility. It would be nonsensical to throw out the entire scientific process and discredit all statistical studies because p-hacking can be done. > Why not 6? Or 8? Or 2? 1? Sure, let's try them all. But maybe not 8, because unless you're the Beatles that isn't going to happen. > 4 day work weeks for any on call industry would be absurd. Shifts exist for this reason. Nobody is on call 24/7. > Why isn't there clear evidence in the business themselves? The study itself showed the business benefits themselves are small. Probably smaller than time variability within a business or across many businesses. The point of the study was not to show business improved but to show that the business outcomes remain similar while employee satisfaction improved. Why wouldn't you want to live in a society where people are happier and business continues as usual?

corbulo 4y ago

Because you can find a study saying almost anything today. We live in an information rich world. It causes people to favor their anecdotes more. My question is, are a lot of the 'benefits' simply because people are contrasting it to a 5 day work week? Much of the logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could be applied to a 3 day work week once people get used to 4 days. I'm not seeing anything unique about 4 days that makes it objectively superior. The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so lets work less!

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Less work leading to greater morale with negligible impact on productivity highly suggests that the extra workday is bullshit and should be done away with. Maybe that's also true of three days? I'm all for trying it. If it isn't, fine, that's a good argument not to do it.
- corbulo 4y ago
  Or maybe there are other relationships at play? Could it be not because its the 5th day, but because its the 'final stretch' to the weekend and would therefore apply to any final day of any workweek? In my experience, i've seen the same behavior before holiday weekends. Should workweeks be 3 days on this evidence? Should workweeks be dictated by productivity on the final day? Why? Is 50% productivity better than 0? Should the only important consideration about a company be morale? Should morale be directly tied to quarterly earnings? Why or why not?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    Dude, the whole point of this thread is that we literally tested this and reduction to a 4-day from a 5-day was shown to have a negligible impact on productivity! It's like you're arguing from some other reality, what the actual fuck!?
    - corbulo 4y ago
      There's innumerable market sectors where 4 day work weeks wouldn't work. It's proof of how half baked the idea is that it wasn't even addressed. It makes the broadest generalizations with no hedging.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        You can argue flaws with the study all you want, that's valid, but it isn't at all what you were arguing up until now.
        corbulo 4y ago
        Those are all points that none of the studies on this subject address. Because they're crap studies. The premise is flawed in every one of them.
renjimen 4y ago
> Because you can find a study saying almost anything today. That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically significant cohort. > Much of the logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could be applied to a 3 day work week once people get used to 4 days. How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the optimal number? It's just some historical compromise we settled on with no scientific support, which is the aim of studies like the one in the article. > The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so lets work less! The argument is less time at work = (greater morale + similar/better business outcomes)
- corbulo 4y ago
  >That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically significant cohort. I never said it was anecdotal. Quite the opposite. Do you know what p hacking is? The number of methods to distort data without detection is too many to count. It's just a fact of life if you're exposed to enough studies on nearly any subject. Appeals to authority are just that. >How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the optimal number? It's just some historical compromise we settled on with no scientific support, which is the aim of studies like the one in the article. Why not 6? Or 8? Or 2? 1? Define scientific support in this context. Going with a blanket approach to say 4 days a week should be the norm for every industry is quite unscientific. 4 day work weeks for any on call industry would be absurd. >The argument is less time at work = (greater morale + similar/better business outcomes) Then why aren't the businesses that already employ it outcompeting fortune 500 companies? Why isn't there clear evidence in the business themselves (being more competitive in their fields)? Why is it only the studies that come up with these results?
  - renjimen 4y ago
    > Do you know what p hacking is? Yes, I work in statistics. P-hacking can be detected and should be exposed during proper peer review and by providing underlying data and methods for reproducibility. It would be nonsensical to throw out the entire scientific process and discredit all statistical studies because p-hacking can be done. > Why not 6? Or 8? Or 2? 1? Sure, let's try them all. But maybe not 8, because unless you're the Beatles that isn't going to happen. > 4 day work weeks for any on call industry would be absurd. Shifts exist for this reason. Nobody is on call 24/7. > Why isn't there clear evidence in the business themselves? The study itself showed the business benefits themselves are small. Probably smaller than time variability within a business or across many businesses. The point of the study was not to show business improved but to show that the business outcomes remain similar while employee satisfaction improved. Why wouldn't you want to live in a society where people are happier and business continues as usual?