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I was really pumped about this approach of having a second specialized keypad a couple years back. So much so that I bought Elgato's Streamdeck and their later

I was really pumped about this approach of having a second specialized keypad a couple years back. So much so that I bought Elgato's Streamdeck and their later released larger pro version. I used them with fervor, taking pains to configure them to my liking and I felt I was on the right path to something amazing. Over time, I kept wondering to myself what I was really gaining compared to just memorizing plain keyboard shortcuts mapped to the handful of functions I assigned to the separate keypad. Every time I saw these devices unplugged I thought about plugging them back in again only to realize the moment I was removed from my workstation, I would lose the ability to use those shortcuts from my laptop's embedded keyboard. I guess an advantage of the separate keypad is having dedicated keys, each with their own iconography for their function. But the whole idea is these are functions that are used often, so having their access embedded in muscle memory is in my opinion the better way to accomplish this.

franga2000 4y ago
> But the whole idea is these are functions that are used often, so having their access embedded in muscle memory is in my opinion the better way to accomplish this The problem with keyboard shortcuts is that they're more complicated to press, often requiring two hands or at least a specific hand to press them. Having a macro pad makes it equally easy to activate an action no matter what I'm doing. Outside of programming and writing, my hand is almost always on the mouse, so two-handed or right-handed chords are out of the questions. On the left side, there aren't many combos that are easy to press one-handed and aren't used already. Additionally, macro pads are also great for rarely-used but annoying actions. Things that aren't common enough to waste screen space or keyboard shortcuts on, but are annoying to do by clicking through menus.
dylan604 4y ago
think of the desktop "console" like the dash on your car before touchscreens. eventually, muscle memory knows where the buttons are and you can access them without looking. it just has to be useful enough to use often enough for it to become muscle memory. i've sat in amazement watching a colorist navigate the large panels without ever taking their eyes off the screen/scopes. there are so many knobs, roller balls, buttons that it is almost sci-fi. lots of other jobs are like this with dedicated gear, and it's part of the mystery of how they do what they do
- zamnos 4y ago
  Yesss. Watching someone who knows what they're doing at, eg, a DaVinci Resolve Micro Panel is a thing of beauty, easily rivaling the performance of a skilled musician. Too bad they don't do performances to the public.
wyager 4y ago
I had the same process with BlackMagic's dedicated video-editing keyboards - they seem really cool at first, but it's hardly an improvement on just getting good with keyboard shortcuts and the trackpad, and then you don't have to lug around specialized hardware.
beachy 4y ago
I've always felt the same, but there are some static scenarios where your shortcut device will always be there and mobility is not required. Case in point a home golf simulator. Absolutely not portable and also have noob users who need to operate the system - easier for them to click a specific labeled button for mulligan rather than needing to press ctrl-M on the actual keyboard.
fencepost 4y ago
I still have plans to iron out the details of making a Stream Deck push actions to time tracking software (probably Toggl but maybe not) with toggled status on the buttons.
user3939382 4y ago
> what I was really gaining compared to just memorizing plain keyboard shortcuts For me the problem is that there are many shortcuts I need but not enough to memorize them. Also like in my IDE there are so many functions a lot of the shortcuts have to be 3 keys which is a hassle, you feel like you're playing a Chopin opus if you need them back to back.
- cyberge99 4y ago
  Add to that the frustration of application specific shortcuts and system shortcuts that can clobber each other depending on focus. I’ve been able to mitigate most of it with KB maestro, but I still find new issues once every few months.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
For me the most useful thing about stream decks is that they’re tied to particular machines while not taking up much space. So for example I usually listen to music through my personal mac since that’s what’s hooked up to my DAC/amp and has all of my music files, even if I’m currently got my work mac hooked up to my primary screen and KB+M. While I can use key shortcuts on my personal mac through Universal Control (like Synergy, except using P2P wifi), it’s nice to not have to mouse over to my personal mac’s screen first — just use the media controls on the stream deck hooked up to that machine. This could also be done with a small macropad like is sold at numerous keyboard enthusiast shops, but it’s not a given that I’ll have keycaps to match the mapped functions which is where the deck’s screen-keys are nice.
__mharrison__ 4y ago
The power of stream deck is that some of the plugins are more advanced. Recreating these with hammerspoon or auto hotkeys can be difficult for some of them. For example, exiting Zoom calls. Having said that I use my steam deck on my Mac to play audio and exit from zoom calls. On windows I had a bunch of scripts to launch tools that required multiple steps.
- saurik 4y ago
  To verify, the only thing those benefits have to do with having an extra custom hardware keyboard is that the company that made the software to do those functions thinks they can make more money selling a fancy piece of hardware, right?
  - zamnos 4y ago
    That seems like a bad take, focused on the money changing hands aspect, and ignoring the other side if that transcation. Especially these days when you could totally build it yourself. Design your own PCB, build your own enclosure, solder all the switches up and write some microcontroller firmware to drive it. Or, y'know, you could just buy the product that someone else already spent the time building if you didn't want to do all that. Some people want a button that very satisfyingly clicks to hang up at the end of that zoom call with their boss/lover/employee/whatever. Some of them are even willing to pay money for one. Others want to build one themselves from scratch. Sounds like you're not willing to. That's okay, it's not like someone is forcing you to buy this thing. (Thankfully, desktop computers are quite open and let you connect random hardware and run random supporting software, and they aren't locked down like, say, iPhones, which you are intimately more familiar with than I.)
    - saurik 4y ago
      The person I was responding to was specifically and narrowly saying that the plugins and software were the benefit, not having the clicky button. They were saying this in response to someone who didn't want a clicky button anymore and had actively given up on using a clicky button, so they were defending the product on the merit of something that explicitly wasn't the clicky button: that having to recreate the software would be hard, and so that's why I guess that other user should buy and use a clicky button even though they realized they didn't really want to have to carry around a clicky button. If what matters to YOU is the clicky button, and you are in a good position to use the clicky button, great!! I have no issue with that, and I purposefully did not reply to anyone else who wanted such, as that is a consistent position. In fact, if someone had asked me "why do people use this product?", I would have said "many people want a clicky button, and so this company makes the clickiest of clicky buttons". But... how does anything you said here have anything to do with the context of the comment I was replying to, which explicitly was trying to sell someone who didn't want a clicky button on the idea that "the power of stream deck" is its software? :(

franga2000 4y ago

> But the whole idea is these are functions that are used often, so having their access embedded in muscle memory is in my opinion the better way to accomplish this The problem with keyboard shortcuts is that they're more complicated to press, often requiring two hands or at least a specific hand to press them. Having a macro pad makes it equally easy to activate an action no matter what I'm doing. Outside of programming and writing, my hand is almost always on the mouse, so two-handed or right-handed chords are out of the questions. On the left side, there aren't many combos that are easy to press one-handed and aren't used already. Additionally, macro pads are also great for rarely-used but annoying actions. Things that aren't common enough to waste screen space or keyboard shortcuts on, but are annoying to do by clicking through menus.

dylan604 4y ago

think of the desktop "console" like the dash on your car before touchscreens. eventually, muscle memory knows where the buttons are and you can access them without looking. it just has to be useful enough to use often enough for it to become muscle memory. i've sat in amazement watching a colorist navigate the large panels without ever taking their eyes off the screen/scopes. there are so many knobs, roller balls, buttons that it is almost sci-fi. lots of other jobs are like this with dedicated gear, and it's part of the mystery of how they do what they do

zamnos 4y ago
Yesss. Watching someone who knows what they're doing at, eg, a DaVinci Resolve Micro Panel is a thing of beauty, easily rivaling the performance of a skilled musician. Too bad they don't do performances to the public.

wyager 4y ago

I had the same process with BlackMagic's dedicated video-editing keyboards - they seem really cool at first, but it's hardly an improvement on just getting good with keyboard shortcuts and the trackpad, and then you don't have to lug around specialized hardware.

beachy 4y ago

I've always felt the same, but there are some static scenarios where your shortcut device will always be there and mobility is not required. Case in point a home golf simulator. Absolutely not portable and also have noob users who need to operate the system - easier for them to click a specific labeled button for mulligan rather than needing to press ctrl-M on the actual keyboard.

fencepost 4y ago

I still have plans to iron out the details of making a Stream Deck push actions to time tracking software (probably Toggl but maybe not) with toggled status on the buttons.

user3939382 4y ago

> what I was really gaining compared to just memorizing plain keyboard shortcuts For me the problem is that there are many shortcuts I need but not enough to memorize them. Also like in my IDE there are so many functions a lot of the shortcuts have to be 3 keys which is a hassle, you feel like you're playing a Chopin opus if you need them back to back.

cyberge99 4y ago
Add to that the frustration of application specific shortcuts and system shortcuts that can clobber each other depending on focus. I’ve been able to mitigate most of it with KB maestro, but I still find new issues once every few months.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

For me the most useful thing about stream decks is that they’re tied to particular machines while not taking up much space. So for example I usually listen to music through my personal mac since that’s what’s hooked up to my DAC/amp and has all of my music files, even if I’m currently got my work mac hooked up to my primary screen and KB+M. While I can use key shortcuts on my personal mac through Universal Control (like Synergy, except using P2P wifi), it’s nice to not have to mouse over to my personal mac’s screen first — just use the media controls on the stream deck hooked up to that machine. This could also be done with a small macropad like is sold at numerous keyboard enthusiast shops, but it’s not a given that I’ll have keycaps to match the mapped functions which is where the deck’s screen-keys are nice.

__mharrison__ 4y ago

The power of stream deck is that some of the plugins are more advanced. Recreating these with hammerspoon or auto hotkeys can be difficult for some of them. For example, exiting Zoom calls. Having said that I use my steam deck on my Mac to play audio and exit from zoom calls. On windows I had a bunch of scripts to launch tools that required multiple steps.

saurik 4y ago
To verify, the only thing those benefits have to do with having an extra custom hardware keyboard is that the company that made the software to do those functions thinks they can make more money selling a fancy piece of hardware, right?
- zamnos 4y ago
  That seems like a bad take, focused on the money changing hands aspect, and ignoring the other side if that transcation. Especially these days when you could totally build it yourself. Design your own PCB, build your own enclosure, solder all the switches up and write some microcontroller firmware to drive it. Or, y'know, you could just buy the product that someone else already spent the time building if you didn't want to do all that. Some people want a button that very satisfyingly clicks to hang up at the end of that zoom call with their boss/lover/employee/whatever. Some of them are even willing to pay money for one. Others want to build one themselves from scratch. Sounds like you're not willing to. That's okay, it's not like someone is forcing you to buy this thing. (Thankfully, desktop computers are quite open and let you connect random hardware and run random supporting software, and they aren't locked down like, say, iPhones, which you are intimately more familiar with than I.)
  - saurik 4y ago
    The person I was responding to was specifically and narrowly saying that the plugins and software were the benefit, not having the clicky button. They were saying this in response to someone who didn't want a clicky button anymore and had actively given up on using a clicky button, so they were defending the product on the merit of something that explicitly wasn't the clicky button: that having to recreate the software would be hard, and so that's why I guess that other user should buy and use a clicky button even though they realized they didn't really want to have to carry around a clicky button. If what matters to YOU is the clicky button, and you are in a good position to use the clicky button, great!! I have no issue with that, and I purposefully did not reply to anyone else who wanted such, as that is a consistent position. In fact, if someone had asked me "why do people use this product?", I would have said "many people want a clicky button, and so this company makes the clickiest of clicky buttons". But... how does anything you said here have anything to do with the context of the comment I was replying to, which explicitly was trying to sell someone who didn't want a clicky button on the idea that "the power of stream deck" is its software? :(