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I think this is commendable. Of course talk is cheap, but silence can be deadly. I hope that the usual people who live on a steady information diet of MSNBC, CN

I think this is commendable. Of course talk is cheap, but silence can be deadly. I hope that the usual people who live on a steady information diet of MSNBC, CNN and FOX news see this statement and hold western leadership accountable for making their own statements, and acting in support of, peaceful reconciliation.

clouddrover 4y ago
Peaceful reconciliation is simple: Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine, Russia extradites those Russians who have committed war crimes, and Russia pays reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine. Putin can start doing that today if he's serious about peace. China should demand Putin to do these things if China is serious about peace. But they're not serious, are they.
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  so.. you are against peaceful reconciliation, because what you describe is unrealistic. would a person that is capable of starting a war ever accept those terms ? especially since pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc
  - lispm 4y ago
    > you are against peaceful reconciliation, because what you describe is unrealistic what you describe is unrealistic. Russia keeps killing people and handing over the Ukraine to them is no option.
    - roundandround 4y ago
      > Russia keeps killing people and handing over the Ukraine to them is no option. And who suggested that? The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent by acting with integrity and admitting defeat and willingness to face externally determined consequences or if something else will happen.
      - lispm 4y ago
        Other than having nukes, Russia is no superpower. Nukes are useless in this war.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        > The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent No need to ask that question. Putin has made Russia weaker, poorer, and a pariah with fewer friends: https://fortune.com/2023/02/20/russia-economy-self-immolated-one-year-putin-invaded-ukraine-sanctions-energy-finance-europe-sonnenfeld-tian/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/20/russia-economy-self-immolated... Russia has become a lesser state run by a sad little man. If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine.
        roundandround 4y ago
        > Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine, Russia extradites those Russians who have committed war crimes, and Russia pays reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine. > If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine The second option doesn't seem to require Russia to do the first. Nor does it really require Russia to remove Putin to get peace. Putin withdrawing is no doubt more realistic if China helps put lipstick on the pig with an obfuscated treaty on future alliances that can be called a victory.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc Putin created his own problems and he has made Russia weaker. It's well past time for him to find the honesty to admit it. Putin made his choices. He gets to live them.
  - reducesuffering 4y ago
    Please bargain with the home invader that says your home is there's now otherwise you're dead. And that's final, no police after the fact. Maybe you can try to convince them you two can split it and live happily ever after inside?
  - mindslight 4y ago
    > especially since pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc Why would Russia not end up in a worse state after launching an ill-advised war of aggression? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
- 2devnull 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    Ukraine didn't seek out war. War was brought to Ukraine. Ukrainians are defending their nation from a belligerent invader. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for the mere right to be Ukrainian. That's as existential as it gets. You have understood nothing.
    - 2devnull 4y ago
      Ukrainians are dying in a war that any educated person knows they are likely to lose. The more money we send them, the more Ukrainians will die. The best solution is a peaceful solution. If you are so righteous in your concern for the plight of Ukrainians, go there and help them! Otherwise you are like the guy who coerces his buddy into a fistfight while hiding safely in the shadows, like a miserable coward.
      - mopsi 4y ago
        > Ukrainians are dying in a war that any educated person knows they are likely to lose. Today is the 25th February 2023, not 2022.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        Ukrainians won't do the capitulation, submission, or subjugation you want from them. They do not share your nihilism. You need to recalibrate your sloppy thinking.
        2devnull 4y ago
        The war would be over if it weren’t for American funding. You think Ukraine will win? Ukraine is nothing except what American war hawks pay it to be, a surrogate army fighting a war funded by American dollars, using American weapons, fighting against America’s enemy. If you think Putin invaded because he wanted to get his hands on Ukrainian resources you’re a fool. This is America and NATO’s war, being fought for our interests, with our dollars, our tanks and missiles, using Ukrainian lives and territory because we fear Putin.

clouddrover 4y ago

Peaceful reconciliation is simple: Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine, Russia extradites those Russians who have committed war crimes, and Russia pays reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine. Putin can start doing that today if he's serious about peace. China should demand Putin to do these things if China is serious about peace. But they're not serious, are they.

4gotunameagain 4y ago
so.. you are against peaceful reconciliation, because what you describe is unrealistic. would a person that is capable of starting a war ever accept those terms ? especially since pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc
- lispm 4y ago
  > you are against peaceful reconciliation, because what you describe is unrealistic what you describe is unrealistic. Russia keeps killing people and handing over the Ukraine to them is no option.
  - roundandround 4y ago
    > Russia keeps killing people and handing over the Ukraine to them is no option. And who suggested that? The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent by acting with integrity and admitting defeat and willingness to face externally determined consequences or if something else will happen.
    - lispm 4y ago
      Other than having nukes, Russia is no superpower. Nukes are useless in this war.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > The question is whether Russia will violate 80 years of superpower precedent No need to ask that question. Putin has made Russia weaker, poorer, and a pariah with fewer friends: https://fortune.com/2023/02/20/russia-economy-self-immolated-one-year-putin-invaded-ukraine-sanctions-energy-finance-europe-sonnenfeld-tian/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/20/russia-economy-self-immolated... Russia has become a lesser state run by a sad little man. If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine.
      - roundandround 4y ago
        > Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine, Russia extradites those Russians who have committed war crimes, and Russia pays reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine. > If Russia wants to rebuild itself then its best option is to remove Putin and withdraw entirely from Ukraine The second option doesn't seem to require Russia to do the first. Nor does it really require Russia to remove Putin to get peace. Putin withdrawing is no doubt more realistic if China helps put lipstick on the pig with an obfuscated treaty on future alliances that can be called a victory.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc Putin created his own problems and he has made Russia weaker. It's well past time for him to find the honesty to admit it. Putin made his choices. He gets to live them.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  Please bargain with the home invader that says your home is there's now otherwise you're dead. And that's final, no police after the fact. Maybe you can try to convince them you two can split it and live happily ever after inside?
- mindslight 4y ago
  > especially since pulling back now puts them in a worse state than before having invaded, with NATO expansion, losses etc Why would Russia not end up in a worse state after launching an ill-advised war of aggression? Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
2devnull 4y ago
[flagged]
- clouddrover 4y ago
  Ukraine didn't seek out war. War was brought to Ukraine. Ukrainians are defending their nation from a belligerent invader. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for the mere right to be Ukrainian. That's as existential as it gets. You have understood nothing.
  - 2devnull 4y ago
    Ukrainians are dying in a war that any educated person knows they are likely to lose. The more money we send them, the more Ukrainians will die. The best solution is a peaceful solution. If you are so righteous in your concern for the plight of Ukrainians, go there and help them! Otherwise you are like the guy who coerces his buddy into a fistfight while hiding safely in the shadows, like a miserable coward.
    - mopsi 4y ago
      > Ukrainians are dying in a war that any educated person knows they are likely to lose. Today is the 25th February 2023, not 2022.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      Ukrainians won't do the capitulation, submission, or subjugation you want from them. They do not share your nihilism. You need to recalibrate your sloppy thinking.
      - 2devnull 4y ago
        The war would be over if it weren’t for American funding. You think Ukraine will win? Ukraine is nothing except what American war hawks pay it to be, a surrogate army fighting a war funded by American dollars, using American weapons, fighting against America’s enemy. If you think Putin invaded because he wanted to get his hands on Ukrainian resources you’re a fool. This is America and NATO’s war, being fought for our interests, with our dollars, our tanks and missiles, using Ukrainian lives and territory because we fear Putin.