4 ms·

When it comes to fermentation, you can get pretty far by developing a good intuition (through experience) of how to steward your little ecosystem and how it res

When it comes to fermentation, you can get pretty far by developing a good intuition (through experience) of how to steward your little ecosystem and how it responds to your particular ingredients and environment. You can be an expert on that and produce great flavors without knowing the microbiology, like cheesemakers and brewers have done for thousands of years. Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch.

poulsbohemian 4y ago
>Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch. That was the part that was eye opening. It's one thing if I'm making something in my kitchen for my use, it's another when you have already achieved regional distribution of a product but clearly have no idea what's actually in it.
- hnfong 4y ago
  If I'm not mistaken a lot of fermented products are in a similar situation. For example yes we know yeast makes wine, but how about the other microbes that contribute to its subtle flavors? We know what makes cheese, but why does cheeses made in a region taste different from another? (note: cheeses in the US has much less variety in tastes due to super standardized industrial processes, but European cheeses do exhibit this behavior, often attributed to different microbiological environments) I've been trying to find info about the science of fermentation of soy sauce, and I haven't been able to get much info. I suspect we don't really know what's in those cultures either.
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    Do we really not know, or have those that do know been hoarding the knowledge in the form of trade secrets? From an outsider perspective, they might be indistinguishable, but I would be shocked if the biggest brands have not done their own research.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      'Sonication of Wine' comes to mind: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ Apparently similar applies to Whiskey: https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiskey-many-years-in-just-a-few-days https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiske... https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-whiskey-with-science/ https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-w... https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using-science-to-age-whiskies-2849922/ https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using... https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 SACRILEGE!
    - hnfong 4y ago
      Pretty sure the "biggest brands" know much more than the small businesses do. But originally we were talking about a garage scale operation..

poulsbohemian 4y ago

>Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch. That was the part that was eye opening. It's one thing if I'm making something in my kitchen for my use, it's another when you have already achieved regional distribution of a product but clearly have no idea what's actually in it.

hnfong 4y ago
If I'm not mistaken a lot of fermented products are in a similar situation. For example yes we know yeast makes wine, but how about the other microbes that contribute to its subtle flavors? We know what makes cheese, but why does cheeses made in a region taste different from another? (note: cheeses in the US has much less variety in tastes due to super standardized industrial processes, but European cheeses do exhibit this behavior, often attributed to different microbiological environments) I've been trying to find info about the science of fermentation of soy sauce, and I haven't been able to get much info. I suspect we don't really know what's in those cultures either.
- voakbasda 4y ago
  Do we really not know, or have those that do know been hoarding the knowledge in the form of trade secrets? From an outsider perspective, they might be indistinguishable, but I would be shocked if the biggest brands have not done their own research.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    'Sonication of Wine' comes to mind: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ Apparently similar applies to Whiskey: https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiskey-many-years-in-just-a-few-days https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiske... https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-whiskey-with-science/ https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-w... https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using-science-to-age-whiskies-2849922/ https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using... https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 SACRILEGE!
  - hnfong 4y ago
    Pretty sure the "biggest brands" know much more than the small businesses do. But originally we were talking about a garage scale operation..