5 ms·

I have a bunch of weird hobbies, including things like brewing mead, making cheese, and yes, I have made kombucha. Years ago when they were still in a garage, I

I have a bunch of weird hobbies, including things like brewing mead, making cheese, and yes, I have made kombucha. Years ago when they were still in a garage, I walked into the "office" of what is now a nationwide kombucha brand. I didn't know anything about kombucha but there was a lot of hype about these people. I started asking questions and was directed to the "head brewer." I wanted to talk microbiology, but it was very evident they had no effing clue what was actually in their mother culture. Sure, they knew how to dump it into their tea, but that was about it. Not very long after that, they had reached national distribution. I think there are a lot of lessons in there for people who are worried about imposter syndrome or people who think all you do is build a better mousetrap, as it had nothing to do with their product and everything to do with the founder having deep ties to the grocery world.

htag 4y ago
A non-technical cofounder with deep industry ties is a strong positive signal.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  Absolutely - as far as I know, they had just one founder, who was very clearly a sales / marketing type. My guess is that they didn't really have any passion for kombucha (I only met them once, by accident really, so don't know the story...) but had done the research on a product that was primed for commercialization.
eat_veggies 4y ago
When it comes to fermentation, you can get pretty far by developing a good intuition (through experience) of how to steward your little ecosystem and how it responds to your particular ingredients and environment. You can be an expert on that and produce great flavors without knowing the microbiology, like cheesemakers and brewers have done for thousands of years. Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  >Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch. That was the part that was eye opening. It's one thing if I'm making something in my kitchen for my use, it's another when you have already achieved regional distribution of a product but clearly have no idea what's actually in it.
  - hnfong 4y ago
    If I'm not mistaken a lot of fermented products are in a similar situation. For example yes we know yeast makes wine, but how about the other microbes that contribute to its subtle flavors? We know what makes cheese, but why does cheeses made in a region taste different from another? (note: cheeses in the US has much less variety in tastes due to super standardized industrial processes, but European cheeses do exhibit this behavior, often attributed to different microbiological environments) I've been trying to find info about the science of fermentation of soy sauce, and I haven't been able to get much info. I suspect we don't really know what's in those cultures either.
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      Do we really not know, or have those that do know been hoarding the knowledge in the form of trade secrets? From an outsider perspective, they might be indistinguishable, but I would be shocked if the biggest brands have not done their own research.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
        'Sonication of Wine' comes to mind: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ Apparently similar applies to Whiskey: https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiskey-many-years-in-just-a-few-days https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiske... https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-whiskey-with-science/ https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-w... https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using-science-to-age-whiskies-2849922/ https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using... https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 SACRILEGE!

htag 4y ago

A non-technical cofounder with deep industry ties is a strong positive signal.

poulsbohemian 4y ago
Absolutely - as far as I know, they had just one founder, who was very clearly a sales / marketing type. My guess is that they didn't really have any passion for kombucha (I only met them once, by accident really, so don't know the story...) but had done the research on a product that was primed for commercialization.

eat_veggies 4y ago

When it comes to fermentation, you can get pretty far by developing a good intuition (through experience) of how to steward your little ecosystem and how it responds to your particular ingredients and environment. You can be an expert on that and produce great flavors without knowing the microbiology, like cheesemakers and brewers have done for thousands of years. Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch.

poulsbohemian 4y ago
>Granted, the hard science is helpful in getting to the next level and achieving a product that's consistent from batch to batch. That was the part that was eye opening. It's one thing if I'm making something in my kitchen for my use, it's another when you have already achieved regional distribution of a product but clearly have no idea what's actually in it.
- hnfong 4y ago
  If I'm not mistaken a lot of fermented products are in a similar situation. For example yes we know yeast makes wine, but how about the other microbes that contribute to its subtle flavors? We know what makes cheese, but why does cheeses made in a region taste different from another? (note: cheeses in the US has much less variety in tastes due to super standardized industrial processes, but European cheeses do exhibit this behavior, often attributed to different microbiological environments) I've been trying to find info about the science of fermentation of soy sauce, and I haven't been able to get much info. I suspect we don't really know what's in those cultures either.
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    Do we really not know, or have those that do know been hoarding the knowledge in the form of trade secrets? From an outsider perspective, they might be indistinguishable, but I would be shocked if the biggest brands have not done their own research.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      'Sonication of Wine' comes to mind: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017153618A1/en https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8348054/ Apparently similar applies to Whiskey: https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiskey-many-years-in-just-a-few-days https://qz.com/907619/the-many-scientific-ways-to-age-whiske... https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-whiskey-with-science/ https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/whiskey-/rapidly-aging-w... https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using-science-to-age-whiskies-2849922/ https://robbreport.com/food-drink/spirits/distilleries-using... https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66552 SACRILEGE!