4 ms·

> What do you mean by supposedly? The DPRK is often portrayed as incompetent, helpless state purely able to eke out an existence by the grace of China (to whom

by smcl 4y ago

> What do you mean by supposedly? The DPRK is often portrayed as incompetent, helpless state purely able to eke out an existence by the grace of China (to whom it is useful only as a sort of attack dog cum buffer state). So the fact that they've managed to run an operation that can steal this much crypto may come as a surprise to many. I don't imagine their intelligence agencies are quite on the same level of electronic warfare capabilities as USA, UK, Israel and friends, though. > That money (in any form) can be stolen by a malevolent state? Right but as we repeatedly saw in the last couple of years, a North Korean hacker could swindle some dope out of their $10k ape jpeg from across the globe at relatively little cost. They'll have a bit of a tougher job stealing that same $10k from someone's bank, from a safe deposit box, or hell even from a box under their bed. It requires another level of sophistication entirely and the costs and risks would be prohibitively high. I am sure if the North Korean state took issue with me personally and wanted to empty my bank account, they could probably make some headway ... but they'd likely get caught and they'd spend more time and effort doing so than they'd actually be able to retrieve.

Salgat 4y ago
It's not really surprising. NK is able to outsource their education to Chinese universities, and with a division that can yield $1.7B in revenue, it's not surprising they invest in this skillset, even if the country at large is destitute and backwards.
- smcl 4y ago
  It is a surprise for those who take the common portrayal of the country at face value. We know it's not quite the "hermit kingdom" it's often described as, but most do not.
  - drewmol 4y ago
    Any good sources on what it’s actually like?
    - smcl 4y ago
      There are probably no good sources for what your average North Korean's life is currently like. There are a handful of famous accounts from a few of those who escaped the country and they're obviously pretty grim (particularly those describing prison camp life) but the stereotype is of this primitive country, which is backwards both ideologically and technologically. I'm not an idiot, I don't believe there's a little hidden Wakanda going on there. But we can at least observe that if they're able to hack that quantity of crypto there is some kind of tech operation going on there, however small it might be. So they're not entirely shut off and they're able to penetrate at least a bunch of western crypto-startups. If you're motivated, don't mind a very on-rails, restricted and relatively pricey tour, you can actually visit yourself: https://koryogroup.com https://koryogroup.com - I've wanted to for a while, but I've spent less money to travel in other interesting places with fewer restrictions for longer, so it's hard to justify the expense. An interesting read you might like is by a couple of Austrian guys who decided to hop on a train there, confusing and irritating border officials who didn't expect an invasion from the northern direction :) http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com Probably the most accessible and interesting thing though, is a podcast series called "Blowback" (it's Season 3, the previous two were on the Cuban revolution and the Iraq war). Now obviously this isn't the current day but it presents a slightly more balanced view of the events leading up to and throughout the Korean War than your average American or Brit might have picked up through osmosis. It's fascinating, well-produced, well-sourced and has a very good soundtrack. Here's ep 1: https://www.stitcher.com/show/blowback/episode/s3-episode-1-stop-me-before-i-kill-again-205155558 https://www.stitcher.com/show/blowback/episode/s3-episode-1-... As I said, there will be no good way to get any kind of verifiable account of how awful or how ok-ish is it is there. And I'm deliberately putting "ok-ish" as the upper limit because while I'm sure that all the ~20 million inhabitants aren't all living the prison camp lifestyle, I don't imagine your average North Korean has a particularly pleasant life. Sorry, maybe not the answer you were hoping for but I hope you enjoy any or all of the things I suggested :)
      - Salgat 4y ago
        I'm sorry, but any society that has 60% living below the poverty line, and is ran by a totalitarian regime with minimal respect for basic human rights is absolutely backwards. South Korea, one of the most advanced societies in the world, is basically what North Korea could be if not for its brutal dictatorship. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4
acdha 4y ago
I’m not sure it’s out of line with the normal news media portrayal: for decades, it’s been understood that there’s an elite which has access to many things which the average citizen is prevented from doing, and this seems more in keeping with that since ransomware doesn’t require unusual levels of skill as much as legal immunity. This seems in line with the level of resources and skill they’d need to do things like the kidnappings and assassinations: a modest number of people and resources, but not remotely near the level they’d need to field a modern army or high-tech economy, and nothing like the ability to hit a hard target. What limited that before were the protections built in to the real banking system. Stealing a billion dollars and actually getting away with it was hard until cryptocurrencies were introduced with far fewer safeguards.

by smcl 4y ago

Salgat 4y ago

It's not really surprising. NK is able to outsource their education to Chinese universities, and with a division that can yield $1.7B in revenue, it's not surprising they invest in this skillset, even if the country at large is destitute and backwards.

smcl 4y ago
It is a surprise for those who take the common portrayal of the country at face value. We know it's not quite the "hermit kingdom" it's often described as, but most do not.
- drewmol 4y ago
  Any good sources on what it’s actually like?
  - smcl 4y ago
    There are probably no good sources for what your average North Korean's life is currently like. There are a handful of famous accounts from a few of those who escaped the country and they're obviously pretty grim (particularly those describing prison camp life) but the stereotype is of this primitive country, which is backwards both ideologically and technologically. I'm not an idiot, I don't believe there's a little hidden Wakanda going on there. But we can at least observe that if they're able to hack that quantity of crypto there is some kind of tech operation going on there, however small it might be. So they're not entirely shut off and they're able to penetrate at least a bunch of western crypto-startups. If you're motivated, don't mind a very on-rails, restricted and relatively pricey tour, you can actually visit yourself: https://koryogroup.com https://koryogroup.com - I've wanted to for a while, but I've spent less money to travel in other interesting places with fewer restrictions for longer, so it's hard to justify the expense. An interesting read you might like is by a couple of Austrian guys who decided to hop on a train there, confusing and irritating border officials who didn't expect an invasion from the northern direction :) http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com Probably the most accessible and interesting thing though, is a podcast series called "Blowback" (it's Season 3, the previous two were on the Cuban revolution and the Iraq war). Now obviously this isn't the current day but it presents a slightly more balanced view of the events leading up to and throughout the Korean War than your average American or Brit might have picked up through osmosis. It's fascinating, well-produced, well-sourced and has a very good soundtrack. Here's ep 1: https://www.stitcher.com/show/blowback/episode/s3-episode-1-stop-me-before-i-kill-again-205155558 https://www.stitcher.com/show/blowback/episode/s3-episode-1-... As I said, there will be no good way to get any kind of verifiable account of how awful or how ok-ish is it is there. And I'm deliberately putting "ok-ish" as the upper limit because while I'm sure that all the ~20 million inhabitants aren't all living the prison camp lifestyle, I don't imagine your average North Korean has a particularly pleasant life. Sorry, maybe not the answer you were hoping for but I hope you enjoy any or all of the things I suggested :)
    - Salgat 4y ago
      I'm sorry, but any society that has 60% living below the poverty line, and is ran by a totalitarian regime with minimal respect for basic human rights is absolutely backwards. South Korea, one of the most advanced societies in the world, is basically what North Korea could be if not for its brutal dictatorship. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4

acdha 4y ago

I’m not sure it’s out of line with the normal news media portrayal: for decades, it’s been understood that there’s an elite which has access to many things which the average citizen is prevented from doing, and this seems more in keeping with that since ransomware doesn’t require unusual levels of skill as much as legal immunity. This seems in line with the level of resources and skill they’d need to do things like the kidnappings and assassinations: a modest number of people and resources, but not remotely near the level they’d need to field a modern army or high-tech economy, and nothing like the ability to hit a hard target. What limited that before were the protections built in to the real banking system. Stealing a billion dollars and actually getting away with it was hard until cryptocurrencies were introduced with far fewer safeguards.