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Arguably, Mozilla's business model is built around getting people to switch to Firefox so they have leverage to make Google pay more for being the default searc

Arguably, Mozilla's business model is built around getting people to switch to Firefox so they have leverage to make Google pay more for being the default search engine.

jqpabc123 4y ago
Arguably, this is an inadequate description of reality. Firefox's market share has done nothing but decline for decades --- and Google still pays.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  Unless Google pays more for the reduced market share, your argument doesn't stand. The fact that Mozilla are failing at their business model doesn't mean that's not the model.
  - jqpabc123 4y ago
    Unless Google pays more for the reduced market share, your argument doesn't stand. So my argument stands. Mozilla's current deal with Google is good through 2023 and is worth around $400-$450 million per year. Every deal Mozilla has made with Google has payments increased --- even as Firefox's browser share has decreased. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2020/08/mozilla-firefox-google-search https://www.androidheadlines.com/2020/08/mozilla-firefox-goo...
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      I haven't seen numbers that back that evolution over the years. This article [0] from 2018 suggests an uptick, but it justifies it as "a deal to get paid for Google search traffic in parts of Europe" - so, actual market expansion. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I haven't seen evidence that you're not. [0] https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-mozilla-more-money-to-push-privacy/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-firef...
      - MacsHeadroom 4y ago
        Google pays for Firefox's livelihood to prevent anti-trust coming for Google Chrome. Google does not care about Firefox's market share. Google only cares that there is an appearance of competition in the browser market.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Then why do they pay Apple for the default search on Safari? Or shy did Yahoo buy the default search on Firefox for several years? And why are Google focusing on a Chrome monopoly when buying the default has out them at risk of being found a search engine monopoly?
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  The market has grown, I wouldn't be surprised if their amount of users has stayed similar for quite a few years now. Google pays per user, not per percent of market share.
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    Firefox's total MAU is still dropping over time. This is their own data on the matter... https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity They've lost about 50 million users between 2019 and 2023 - roughly 20% of the 2019 totals. In my opinion - Google pays because having a well known name that they can claim is still competing in the browser space is beneficial to them with regards to antitrust and monopoly laws. The ad revenue from the Firefox user base helps to make that cost manageable.

Arguably, Mozilla's business model is built around getting people to switch to Firefox so they have leverage to make Google pay more for being the default search engine.

jqpabc123 4y ago

Arguably, this is an inadequate description of reality. Firefox's market share has done nothing but decline for decades --- and Google still pays.

cassianoleal 4y ago
Unless Google pays more for the reduced market share, your argument doesn't stand. The fact that Mozilla are failing at their business model doesn't mean that's not the model.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  Unless Google pays more for the reduced market share, your argument doesn't stand. So my argument stands. Mozilla's current deal with Google is good through 2023 and is worth around $400-$450 million per year. Every deal Mozilla has made with Google has payments increased --- even as Firefox's browser share has decreased. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2020/08/mozilla-firefox-google-search https://www.androidheadlines.com/2020/08/mozilla-firefox-goo...
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    I haven't seen numbers that back that evolution over the years. This article [0] from 2018 suggests an uptick, but it justifies it as "a deal to get paid for Google search traffic in parts of Europe" - so, actual market expansion. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I haven't seen evidence that you're not. [0] https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-firefox-search-deal-gives-mozilla-more-money-to-push-privacy/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-firef...
    - MacsHeadroom 4y ago
      Google pays for Firefox's livelihood to prevent anti-trust coming for Google Chrome. Google does not care about Firefox's market share. Google only cares that there is an appearance of competition in the browser market.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Then why do they pay Apple for the default search on Safari? Or shy did Yahoo buy the default search on Firefox for several years? And why are Google focusing on a Chrome monopoly when buying the default has out them at risk of being found a search engine monopoly?
boomboomsubban 4y ago
The market has grown, I wouldn't be surprised if their amount of users has stayed similar for quite a few years now. Google pays per user, not per percent of market share.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  Firefox's total MAU is still dropping over time. This is their own data on the matter... https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity They've lost about 50 million users between 2019 and 2023 - roughly 20% of the 2019 totals. In my opinion - Google pays because having a well known name that they can claim is still competing in the browser space is beneficial to them with regards to antitrust and monopoly laws. The ad revenue from the Firefox user base helps to make that cost manageable.