3 ms·

I feel like one thing that is still holding Linux Desktop and any initiative like this back is that we don't have really high quality linux laptops on the marke

I feel like one thing that is still holding Linux Desktop and any initiative like this back is that we don't have really high quality linux laptops on the market. We have some people like System76 doing great things, but not in Europe and for all their great work its not the highest quality stuff from China with some serious limitations. For all the things the European Union funds, from chip manufacture, HPC and many other project from large to medium to small. Why have we not seen a made in Europe Laptop/Desktop/Phone for the bureaucrats and engineers who do things like running states and building weapons and so on. A fair amount of EU money goes into a lot of these distributed system and internet projects. And I'm not complaining, but we are spending a lot of time trying to make our system secure from everything other then direct attack. The fireware in the new notebook doesn't seem better then in the one before, in fact worse in some way. We have most of the software, we have most of the things needed to do these things. An Open-Source computer for Europe (and anybody) would be a real counter-point to most of the other models out there. In such an environment a real AppStore for Open Linux desktop could actually be a really good thing.

systems 4y ago
Many things are holding Linux on the Desktop, but its more so that the competition is doing better and the Desktop market shifted First, Windows caught up, Linux used to have things that windows didnt in the late 90s and early 2000s, not most linux only app have windows ports, you can run any linux app on windows WSL , and now windows also have powershell Second, apple made a comeback, now many people who dont want windows use apple and get a unix experience if they wanted one Third, end users shifted to tablets and mobile phone The combination of all 3, leave little room for linux, no matter how good linux does , linux on the desktop only make sense for people who develop for linux on the server and want a similar environment on their laptop
- alwayslikethis 4y ago
  Or for disgruntled slaveware users, who got pushed over the edge by the software companies ("Windows really trying to force you to use a micro$oft account these days", or "Apple rolling out their spyware to scan for photos on your phone and reporting to them despite saying not to"[1]). 1. https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-now/ https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-n...
  - alexklarjr 4y ago
    Ackchyually, apple only wanted to scan photos on your iphone so they can keep them encrypted in the cloud. They want to be compliant with laws, your government (people you never elected and never even seen on TV) constantly evolving to control you. In 5 years Linux distros will have same scan features because it will be new law that outlaw to own a PC without connected surveillance. It just another regulation. Your car already have eCall spyware mic/gps tracker, so you won’t really care. You just be disgruntled about new AI robocalls inside Windows or new build of “voice control first” GNOME desktop on Ubuntu.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  You forgot about people who care about their data and about privacy and those who hate ads.
pjmlp 4y ago
https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/ https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/ https://www.lenovo.com/pt/pt/d/portateis-linux https://www.lenovo.com/pt/pt/d/portateis-linux https://linuxsi.com/ https://linuxsi.com/ https://www.skroutz.gr/c/25/laptop/f/526320/Linux.html https://www.skroutz.gr/c/25/laptop/f/526320/Linux.html The problem isn't the hardware per se, rather lack of focus on a single desktop experience like the competition. For non-technical users and app developers.
- butterNaN 4y ago
  I believe that's what System76 is trying to do.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Without a proper app development stack they won't go far, it is going to be Electron as always.
POPOSYS 4y ago
What is the base data for your analysis? Is this data available? And how did you come to the conclusion that "missing high quality linux desktops" are the thing "holding back" Linux? Is this based on some statistical work you did? If we talk about feelings - did you ever have the feeling that corruption, lobbying and blackmailing could play a role? BTW - why do you think Linux is missing high quality desktops? I am working with very high quality Linux desktops since many years and I wonder why people are using such low quality desktop OS that are sold commercially.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  I'm not seeking funding, I'm not writing a scientific paper. This is a public forum and I stated an opinion. > If we talk about feelings - did you ever have the feeling that corruption, lobbying and blackmailing could play a role? If you want to make the argument make it, I will listen. I working with Linux desktop for decades and like it. My point is that the hardware is the bigger issue.

systems 4y ago

Many things are holding Linux on the Desktop, but its more so that the competition is doing better and the Desktop market shifted First, Windows caught up, Linux used to have things that windows didnt in the late 90s and early 2000s, not most linux only app have windows ports, you can run any linux app on windows WSL , and now windows also have powershell Second, apple made a comeback, now many people who dont want windows use apple and get a unix experience if they wanted one Third, end users shifted to tablets and mobile phone The combination of all 3, leave little room for linux, no matter how good linux does , linux on the desktop only make sense for people who develop for linux on the server and want a similar environment on their laptop

alwayslikethis 4y ago
Or for disgruntled slaveware users, who got pushed over the edge by the software companies ("Windows really trying to force you to use a micro$oft account these days", or "Apple rolling out their spyware to scan for photos on your phone and reporting to them despite saying not to"[1]). 1. https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-now/ https://sneak.berlin/20230115/macos-scans-your-local-files-n...
- alexklarjr 4y ago
  Ackchyually, apple only wanted to scan photos on your iphone so they can keep them encrypted in the cloud. They want to be compliant with laws, your government (people you never elected and never even seen on TV) constantly evolving to control you. In 5 years Linux distros will have same scan features because it will be new law that outlaw to own a PC without connected surveillance. It just another regulation. Your car already have eCall spyware mic/gps tracker, so you won’t really care. You just be disgruntled about new AI robocalls inside Windows or new build of “voice control first” GNOME desktop on Ubuntu.
prmoustache 4y ago
You forgot about people who care about their data and about privacy and those who hate ads.

pjmlp 4y ago

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/ https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/ https://www.lenovo.com/pt/pt/d/portateis-linux https://www.lenovo.com/pt/pt/d/portateis-linux https://linuxsi.com/ https://linuxsi.com/ https://www.skroutz.gr/c/25/laptop/f/526320/Linux.html https://www.skroutz.gr/c/25/laptop/f/526320/Linux.html The problem isn't the hardware per se, rather lack of focus on a single desktop experience like the competition. For non-technical users and app developers.

butterNaN 4y ago
I believe that's what System76 is trying to do.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Without a proper app development stack they won't go far, it is going to be Electron as always.

POPOSYS 4y ago

What is the base data for your analysis? Is this data available? And how did you come to the conclusion that "missing high quality linux desktops" are the thing "holding back" Linux? Is this based on some statistical work you did? If we talk about feelings - did you ever have the feeling that corruption, lobbying and blackmailing could play a role? BTW - why do you think Linux is missing high quality desktops? I am working with very high quality Linux desktops since many years and I wonder why people are using such low quality desktop OS that are sold commercially.

panick21_ 4y ago
I'm not seeking funding, I'm not writing a scientific paper. This is a public forum and I stated an opinion. > If we talk about feelings - did you ever have the feeling that corruption, lobbying and blackmailing could play a role? If you want to make the argument make it, I will listen. I working with Linux desktop for decades and like it. My point is that the hardware is the bigger issue.