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> This is perhaps the central tragedy of fy_iceworld. The game industry benefits from its legacy, but the conditions that spurred its influence no longer exist.

> This is perhaps the central tragedy of fy_iceworld. The game industry benefits from its legacy, but the conditions that spurred its influence no longer exist. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 does not offer a freely downloadable level editor for players to make new custom maps, nor does it allow a decentralized network of player-managed multiplayer servers to distribute these custom maps. We can only play what someone else has decided for us. This climate change has ensured that there will never be another fy_iceworld. Couldn't agree more. I have a lot of fond memories of playing on stupid custom TF2 maps. In most ways, game development has gotten more accessible by miles over the last few decades, but this is one of a few ways it's gotten less accessible. It's easier than ever to make a full new game, but it's become impossible to make a single simplistic map for an existing shooter that your friends actually play.

nerdponx 4y ago
Urban Terror has a lot of custom maps, but there don't seem to be many players online at any given time, at least not where I have decent ping.
hackernewds 4y ago
Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor.
- sayhello 4y ago
  Counter-Strike was a mod of Half Life, not Halo.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  You mean half life right?
- nomad_dude 4y ago
  Counter-strike was originally a Half-Life mod.
- lagniappe 4y ago
  > Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor. I thought it was half life
  - dopidopHN 4y ago
    Because it was. I was playing ton of video game at that time and the mod community around half life was really fun and creative. Science and Industry was a fun mod as well. But yeah I also remember CS ad being at another level right away.
    - emsixteen 4y ago
      Do you remember Wanted? The wild west one? Good craic. Then there's Ricochet.. :')
      - AlexandrB 4y ago
        The Natural Selection half life mod, and the standalone NS2 are still the best (maybe only?) asymmetric shooter/RTS hybrids I've played.
      - dopidopHN 4y ago
        I did not until now haha! But now I do. Someone else mentioned “natural selection” as well
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  It was Half Life and people typically used QuArK (Quake Army Knife) an open source tool originally made for Quake 1/2 maps, but Half Life used the same map file format. Later along Valve released Hammer, their own level editor.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    I remember Quark being so revelatory at the time, and also so frustratingly unstable.
  - yrro 4y ago
    QuArK, my first introduction to Python scripting. Python 1.5, if I remember correctly... Gosh, it's still around, and its web site looks identical to how I remember it looking 25 years ago! https://quark.sourceforge.io/ https://quark.sourceforge.io/
- renewiltord 4y ago
  And people say ChatGPT bullshits. I believe Hammer has actually been out for more than 2 decades now. I certainly recall trying to recreate my school as a de map.
  - antihero 4y ago
    I did this and showed them and they thought it was great I was doing something with my time that was not fucking about with their network. Apparently this sort of thing didn’t go down so well in the USA…
kapp_in_life 4y ago
>it's become impossible to make a single simplistic map for an existing shooter that your friends actually play Counter strike global offensive still has a level editor. Though yeah fewer games nowadays ship with the community servers and mod tools you need to have that kind of organic community. Guess its mostly a problem with the changing monetization strategies where you want to sell microtransaction cosmetics which probably couldn't compete if someone could get whatever goofy modded cosmetics people added to their servers.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  Not only does it still have a level editor, it also shipped what was, in my opinion, the greatest user-made map[0] to exist within the last decade. [0]https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo
  - boywitharupee 4y ago
    Looks like Valve removed it from their official build. Can you still download and privately play this map?
    - jimbob45 4y ago
      Yep! You just subscribe with the Steam workshop and load it up as a private game. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=389175812 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=38917...
- jamesfinlayson 4y ago
  One of the few that does. I think with Counter-Strike Global Offensive some of the better community maps get bundled up into events and... something gets sold I think? I don't think it's access to the map (because anyone can download the map) but I'm pretty sure players can pay for something.
  - Manuel_D 4y ago
paczki 4y ago
Videogames largely moving away from mapping/modding in general has been such a disappointing thing to me for many years now. I'm still playing Doom and Quake mods to this day and some of the content people put out is incredible. Recently an episode 2 for the Quake mod DWELL released and is of unbelievable quality that we couldn't have even imagined playing back in the 90s. Community servers on the other hand.. those have almost all but vanished completely. It's pretty much just Valve games as far as AAA goes, and even they do their best to hide their server browsers now. Unfortunately, it just seems like you can't aggressively monetize free content so the industry in general has moved away from allowing it.
- smrtinsert 4y ago
  The absolute best gaming I've ever done has been on custom servers with highly invested well run admin culture. It is sad to see that gone. This generation has much better single player experiences though, in a insane variety of aesthetics, so maybe that trade off is acceptable.
  - taskforcegemini 4y ago
    > This generation has much better single player experiences though, in a insane variety of aesthetics, so maybe that trade off is acceptable. I wouldn't generalize it like that
- somenameforme 4y ago
  I think the world you're describing (and GP as well) is largely relegated to consoles. PC gaming has never been more moddable on average. In many cases, this even includes the exact same titles! For instance Bethesda titles on console range from zero to minimal modding, while on PC those exact same games allow complete and unlimited modding, alongside first party tooling support, to the point that you have entire overhauls of the game that scarcely resemble the original available, for free. Some, like Enderal, even get their own big releases. [1] Basically gaming splintered, hard. So you end up with people, both living and playing games during the exact same time period, having radically different perspectives on the state of gaming. It's really interesting if you draw parallels between this and the state of bubbles within society in general. [1] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_...
f0e4c2f7 4y ago
I have great news if you're willing to play VR games - PavlovVR is pretty much exactly what you're describing here. It has community servers and can be modded with anything you can put in an unreal engine level (so anything) It's based on CS so it has all the same weapons and mechanics. It has an active modding community that has added every map from every game you've ever played (including iceworld, but so many more) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139210286&searchtext=iceworld https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=11392... I know something will replace it eventually but it has been my all time favorite game for the last 5 years or so.
nullandvoid 4y ago
I'm holding out for s&box hopefully being a return to community driven gaming. Garry has a proven track record of shipping games with big audiences (I've personally sunk way too many hours into both Gmod & Rust), and with source 2 as the engine it's looking pretty graphically stunning.
paulmd 4y ago
> I have a lot of fond memories of playing on stupid custom TF2 maps. typical pl_badwater fan vs average koth_trainsawlaser enjoyer my guilty pleasure was 32v32 fast spawn on the usual payload and a/d standards, with regulars it is a very fun format. Yes, it is highly spammy and teams generally run multiple combos, and that changes up the tactics a lot. A pair of krubered demos (two combos) can break through (mk V.battlefield.wmv) or you can have a really dynamic playing field with very frequent pops. Multiple sentries are common on defense... but you have the krickies. Or you can use short-circuit engineers as minesweepers. With 32 players actually there is a lot more flexing between classes and a whole class of multi-combo plays that become possible, it is a lot of fun on a pub server where anything can happen. Custom maps (like the one 32v32 all-custom Topnotch clan server) are often balanced better for a larger number of players, but, 32v32 payload was a very fun and intense game format, it's all the fun of pubbing (fun bullshit loadouts because there's lots of room to flex) but just more focused and dynamic. Can you pull off some weird bullshit that pops both their meds? fuck it go for it The late-game balance changes (iron bomber, air strike, parachute, combo pyro nerf, everything) really all made the game worse in the name of "e-sports matchmaking" that never materialized. I would like to go back to the Love and War update plz, but keep the airblast changes and maybe a very few choice others, but that was peak funhaving and then the nerf bat came down for fun and meme loadouts to make the game "good for esports". Give me TF2014 plz, nocrits. The decline of the self-hosted instance is tragic, when most of the newer games are gone they're gone. You will never get The Division back or BF1/BFV/2042/etc. Oops server rental program gone. Enjoy ur singleplayer battlefield experience. Sadly it's also the only way to fight the bot plague, what Valve has allowed to happen to TF2 is disgusting. Can't wait for everyone to migrate to Team Comtress 2. I once read someone call Touhou "the closest thing to an open-source fandom" and of course there's the "do they make touhou but for BOYS? -> TF2" meme and honestly that's very apropos too, TF2 is one of the latest and most advanced multiplayer games before things really went off the rails, and it's one of the few you can selfhost, it is a common cultural heritage in the way that very little will be afterwards. And now the source is leaked. Behold the strange death and eternal life of team fortress the second, born october 10th, the 2007th of our era. It will outlast hats and inventory and all of us, a powerful memeplex and a really good game. I do look on it with such mixed emotions though because hats were the prototype for knife skins in CS:GO and that perked everyone else up at the giant wheelbarrows of money steam was bringing in, and that eventually destroyed AAA gaming. TF2 was gambling but it wasn't that predatory (ok grandpa). I mean yes Valve literally does measure player arousal/stimulation to calibrate the Director in L4D but that's just good game design really. Hey wait

nerdponx 4y ago

Urban Terror has a lot of custom maps, but there don't seem to be many players online at any given time, at least not where I have decent ping.

hackernewds 4y ago

Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor.

sayhello 4y ago
Counter-Strike was a mod of Half Life, not Halo.
vlovich123 4y ago
You mean half life right?
nomad_dude 4y ago
Counter-strike was originally a Half-Life mod.
lagniappe 4y ago
> Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor. I thought it was half life
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Because it was. I was playing ton of video game at that time and the mod community around half life was really fun and creative. Science and Industry was a fun mod as well. But yeah I also remember CS ad being at another level right away.
  - emsixteen 4y ago
    Do you remember Wanted? The wild west one? Good craic. Then there's Ricochet.. :')
    - AlexandrB 4y ago
      The Natural Selection half life mod, and the standalone NS2 are still the best (maybe only?) asymmetric shooter/RTS hybrids I've played.
    - dopidopHN 4y ago
      I did not until now haha! But now I do. Someone else mentioned “natural selection” as well
squeaky-clean 4y ago
It was Half Life and people typically used QuArK (Quake Army Knife) an open source tool originally made for Quake 1/2 maps, but Half Life used the same map file format. Later along Valve released Hammer, their own level editor.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  I remember Quark being so revelatory at the time, and also so frustratingly unstable.
- yrro 4y ago
  QuArK, my first introduction to Python scripting. Python 1.5, if I remember correctly... Gosh, it's still around, and its web site looks identical to how I remember it looking 25 years ago! https://quark.sourceforge.io/ https://quark.sourceforge.io/
renewiltord 4y ago
And people say ChatGPT bullshits. I believe Hammer has actually been out for more than 2 decades now. I certainly recall trying to recreate my school as a de map.
- antihero 4y ago
  I did this and showed them and they thought it was great I was doing something with my time that was not fucking about with their network. Apparently this sort of thing didn’t go down so well in the USA…

kapp_in_life 4y ago

>it's become impossible to make a single simplistic map for an existing shooter that your friends actually play Counter strike global offensive still has a level editor. Though yeah fewer games nowadays ship with the community servers and mod tools you need to have that kind of organic community. Guess its mostly a problem with the changing monetization strategies where you want to sell microtransaction cosmetics which probably couldn't compete if someone could get whatever goofy modded cosmetics people added to their servers.

jimbob45 4y ago
Not only does it still have a level editor, it also shipped what was, in my opinion, the greatest user-made map[0] to exist within the last decade. [0]https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Zoo
- boywitharupee 4y ago
  Looks like Valve removed it from their official build. Can you still download and privately play this map?
  - jimbob45 4y ago
    Yep! You just subscribe with the Steam workshop and load it up as a private game. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=389175812 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=38917...
jamesfinlayson 4y ago
One of the few that does. I think with Counter-Strike Global Offensive some of the better community maps get bundled up into events and... something gets sold I think? I don't think it's access to the map (because anyone can download the map) but I'm pretty sure players can pay for something.
- Manuel_D 4y ago

paczki 4y ago

Videogames largely moving away from mapping/modding in general has been such a disappointing thing to me for many years now. I'm still playing Doom and Quake mods to this day and some of the content people put out is incredible. Recently an episode 2 for the Quake mod DWELL released and is of unbelievable quality that we couldn't have even imagined playing back in the 90s. Community servers on the other hand.. those have almost all but vanished completely. It's pretty much just Valve games as far as AAA goes, and even they do their best to hide their server browsers now. Unfortunately, it just seems like you can't aggressively monetize free content so the industry in general has moved away from allowing it.

smrtinsert 4y ago
The absolute best gaming I've ever done has been on custom servers with highly invested well run admin culture. It is sad to see that gone. This generation has much better single player experiences though, in a insane variety of aesthetics, so maybe that trade off is acceptable.
- taskforcegemini 4y ago
  > This generation has much better single player experiences though, in a insane variety of aesthetics, so maybe that trade off is acceptable. I wouldn't generalize it like that
somenameforme 4y ago
I think the world you're describing (and GP as well) is largely relegated to consoles. PC gaming has never been more moddable on average. In many cases, this even includes the exact same titles! For instance Bethesda titles on console range from zero to minimal modding, while on PC those exact same games allow complete and unlimited modding, alongside first party tooling support, to the point that you have entire overhauls of the game that scarcely resemble the original available, for free. Some, like Enderal, even get their own big releases. [1] Basically gaming splintered, hard. So you end up with people, both living and playing games during the exact same time period, having radically different perspectives on the state of gaming. It's really interesting if you draw parallels between this and the state of bubbles within society in general. [1] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/933480/Enderal_Forgotten_...

f0e4c2f7 4y ago

I have great news if you're willing to play VR games - PavlovVR is pretty much exactly what you're describing here. It has community servers and can be modded with anything you can put in an unreal engine level (so anything) It's based on CS so it has all the same weapons and mechanics. It has an active modding community that has added every map from every game you've ever played (including iceworld, but so many more) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139210286&searchtext=iceworld https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=11392... I know something will replace it eventually but it has been my all time favorite game for the last 5 years or so.

nullandvoid 4y ago

I'm holding out for s&box hopefully being a return to community driven gaming. Garry has a proven track record of shipping games with big audiences (I've personally sunk way too many hours into both Gmod & Rust), and with source 2 as the engine it's looking pretty graphically stunning.

paulmd 4y ago

> I have a lot of fond memories of playing on stupid custom TF2 maps. typical pl_badwater fan vs average koth_trainsawlaser enjoyer my guilty pleasure was 32v32 fast spawn on the usual payload and a/d standards, with regulars it is a very fun format. Yes, it is highly spammy and teams generally run multiple combos, and that changes up the tactics a lot. A pair of krubered demos (two combos) can break through (mk V.battlefield.wmv) or you can have a really dynamic playing field with very frequent pops. Multiple sentries are common on defense... but you have the krickies. Or you can use short-circuit engineers as minesweepers. With 32 players actually there is a lot more flexing between classes and a whole class of multi-combo plays that become possible, it is a lot of fun on a pub server where anything can happen. Custom maps (like the one 32v32 all-custom Topnotch clan server) are often balanced better for a larger number of players, but, 32v32 payload was a very fun and intense game format, it's all the fun of pubbing (fun bullshit loadouts because there's lots of room to flex) but just more focused and dynamic. Can you pull off some weird bullshit that pops both their meds? fuck it go for it The late-game balance changes (iron bomber, air strike, parachute, combo pyro nerf, everything) really all made the game worse in the name of "e-sports matchmaking" that never materialized. I would like to go back to the Love and War update plz, but keep the airblast changes and maybe a very few choice others, but that was peak funhaving and then the nerf bat came down for fun and meme loadouts to make the game "good for esports". Give me TF2014 plz, nocrits. The decline of the self-hosted instance is tragic, when most of the newer games are gone they're gone. You will never get The Division back or BF1/BFV/2042/etc. Oops server rental program gone. Enjoy ur singleplayer battlefield experience. Sadly it's also the only way to fight the bot plague, what Valve has allowed to happen to TF2 is disgusting. Can't wait for everyone to migrate to Team Comtress 2. I once read someone call Touhou "the closest thing to an open-source fandom" and of course there's the "do they make touhou but for BOYS? -> TF2" meme and honestly that's very apropos too, TF2 is one of the latest and most advanced multiplayer games before things really went off the rails, and it's one of the few you can selfhost, it is a common cultural heritage in the way that very little will be afterwards. And now the source is leaked. Behold the strange death and eternal life of team fortress the second, born october 10th, the 2007th of our era. It will outlast hats and inventory and all of us, a powerful memeplex and a really good game. I do look on it with such mixed emotions though because hats were the prototype for knife skins in CS:GO and that perked everyone else up at the giant wheelbarrows of money steam was bringing in, and that eventually destroyed AAA gaming. TF2 was gambling but it wasn't that predatory (ok grandpa). I mean yes Valve literally does measure player arousal/stimulation to calibrate the Director in L4D but that's just good game design really. Hey wait