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I think this is one of those cases where if the "lead generation" industry died in a fire I would be okay with that. At Google there was a poster that read, "F

I think this is one of those cases where if the "lead generation" industry died in a fire I would be okay with that. At Google there was a poster that read, "For every search there is the perfect Ad" and someone had written on it, "most times that is no ad at all." which lasted for maybe a week and a half before it was taken down. So often there is no "value" to the person doing the action, the "value" is between the web site and the people who want to get information about you.

arwhatever 4y ago
At Getty Images there was a meme printout of an angry cat someone put on the wall in the brake with a caption “I haz a disappoint in you,” I think pertaining to leaving the coffee pot empty. Someone came along and added a note “do you have appropriate permission to reproduce this image?” And if I recall, both parts stayed up indefinitely.
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  Oh that is fabulous.
mjburgess 4y ago
Well "lead generation" is about matching "needers" with "suppliers". Eg., suppose a pipe breaks, you search for plumber, you find a plumber. That search is a lead generator for that plumber. That search is "free", by intuition, kinda destroys our sense of value in lead generation, right? Google should NOT be free for that plumber; the plumber should be paying quite a lot for the service. Suppliers of services need a system which allocates demand, right? Indeed, customers need a system of finding suppliers.
- prepend 4y ago
  I much prefer organic plumber results than ad. So google should be free for the plumber. The best result is almost never the ad. And in the rare situation where there ad is the best result, it’s an inefficiency because the poor plumber is paying for an unnecessary ad. We’re hitting a point where we always get shitty plumbers because they have good ads and don’t need to be good plumbers. Or even worse, most plumber ads are just lead generation where I get some random plumber driving 90 minutes because they bought the lead and responded first. I’d rather be in a world where the search surfaced the best plumber. Not some arbitrating middleman sucking value away from the plumber and the person with a backed up toilet.
  - mjburgess 4y ago
    You've missed my point. The search itself has to be paid for; the search itself is lead generation. The search is the "middle man". Who is paying for google search?
    - galangalalgol 4y ago
      Is there a service out there I can pay to let me look through a list of curated plumbers that do not pay the service to be listed? See the comments of other users of the service, star ratings etc. Plumbers that get complaints get dropped. I'd definitely pay for that if I didn't already know someone.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        In my US state, plumbers are contractors governed by a contractor's board that keeps records about complaints. Always look up a contractor with the regulatory board. It's even free.
  - jsonne 4y ago
    I hate to break it to you but the SEO industry is as big as advertising generally and organic results are heavily gamed. As it relies a ton on link building and many of those links are paid for it's hardly the meritocratic process many think it is.
- hgsgm 4y ago
  Google's value prop is that high quality results are free, and low quality results for dumb people go on the ad ghetto. Without that, they lose the users thst drive revenue.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > Google should NOT be free for that plumber; the plumber should be paying quite a lot for the service. But that makes the service into an ad. The last thing I'm going to do is take any recommendations from someone who is being paid to give recommendations.
nicbou 4y ago
I agree, but with a small exception. There is value in saying "here's the number of a guy I know and trust". Curating options is valuable. Basically you need to be a honest broker: https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/how-i-became-the-honest-broker https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/how-i-became-the-honest-brok... There is also value in preparing leads with good information, filtering out tire kickers, and abstracting marketing or billing away. Some people want to work on their craft without thinking about SEO and the like. For example, I work with people I trust to take over when the information on my website is not enough. "This is all I know. If you need a lawyer, call Fiona, she helped me a lot and I trust her advice". For some of the people I recommend, I get a kickback. As I see it, everyone in this transaction gains something.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > For some of the people I recommend, I get a kickback. Do you disclose this?

arwhatever 4y ago

At Getty Images there was a meme printout of an angry cat someone put on the wall in the brake with a caption “I haz a disappoint in you,” I think pertaining to leaving the coffee pot empty. Someone came along and added a note “do you have appropriate permission to reproduce this image?” And if I recall, both parts stayed up indefinitely.

ChuckMcM 4y ago
Oh that is fabulous.

mjburgess 4y ago

Well "lead generation" is about matching "needers" with "suppliers". Eg., suppose a pipe breaks, you search for plumber, you find a plumber. That search is a lead generator for that plumber. That search is "free", by intuition, kinda destroys our sense of value in lead generation, right? Google should NOT be free for that plumber; the plumber should be paying quite a lot for the service. Suppliers of services need a system which allocates demand, right? Indeed, customers need a system of finding suppliers.

prepend 4y ago
I much prefer organic plumber results than ad. So google should be free for the plumber. The best result is almost never the ad. And in the rare situation where there ad is the best result, it’s an inefficiency because the poor plumber is paying for an unnecessary ad. We’re hitting a point where we always get shitty plumbers because they have good ads and don’t need to be good plumbers. Or even worse, most plumber ads are just lead generation where I get some random plumber driving 90 minutes because they bought the lead and responded first. I’d rather be in a world where the search surfaced the best plumber. Not some arbitrating middleman sucking value away from the plumber and the person with a backed up toilet.
- mjburgess 4y ago
  You've missed my point. The search itself has to be paid for; the search itself is lead generation. The search is the "middle man". Who is paying for google search?
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    Is there a service out there I can pay to let me look through a list of curated plumbers that do not pay the service to be listed? See the comments of other users of the service, star ratings etc. Plumbers that get complaints get dropped. I'd definitely pay for that if I didn't already know someone.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      In my US state, plumbers are contractors governed by a contractor's board that keeps records about complaints. Always look up a contractor with the regulatory board. It's even free.
- jsonne 4y ago
  I hate to break it to you but the SEO industry is as big as advertising generally and organic results are heavily gamed. As it relies a ton on link building and many of those links are paid for it's hardly the meritocratic process many think it is.
hgsgm 4y ago
Google's value prop is that high quality results are free, and low quality results for dumb people go on the ad ghetto. Without that, they lose the users thst drive revenue.
JohnFen 4y ago
> Google should NOT be free for that plumber; the plumber should be paying quite a lot for the service. But that makes the service into an ad. The last thing I'm going to do is take any recommendations from someone who is being paid to give recommendations.

nicbou 4y ago

I agree, but with a small exception. There is value in saying "here's the number of a guy I know and trust". Curating options is valuable. Basically you need to be a honest broker: https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/how-i-became-the-honest-broker https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/how-i-became-the-honest-brok... There is also value in preparing leads with good information, filtering out tire kickers, and abstracting marketing or billing away. Some people want to work on their craft without thinking about SEO and the like. For example, I work with people I trust to take over when the information on my website is not enough. "This is all I know. If you need a lawyer, call Fiona, she helped me a lot and I trust her advice". For some of the people I recommend, I get a kickback. As I see it, everyone in this transaction gains something.

JohnFen 4y ago
> For some of the people I recommend, I get a kickback. Do you disclose this?