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Duelling with swords lives on in Germany, albeit in a very ritualistic, controlled fashion: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/69224/how-can-a-tourist-

Duelling with swords lives on in Germany, albeit in a very ritualistic, controlled fashion: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/69224/how-can-a-tourist-obtain-an-authentic-duelling-scar https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/69224/how-can-a-t...

groby_b 4y ago
It is actually not permissible to duel. You can engage in "friendly combat", but duelling to restore your honor is both illegal and dishonorable. (The German fraternities, which are responsible for these fights, gave their word of honor that there would be no more duels to satisfy insults to honor) It is also an extremely stupid idea that scars are somehow an "authentic mark". As somebody who fought three of those "mensuren": Scars are a sign that you thought you are better than you actually are. It's the embodiment of "Dunning Kruger walks here".
- somenameforme 4y ago
  This seems analogous to claiming that an MMA fighter with cauliflower ear just thought they were better than they were. One of the great thing about sports is that they teach humility. You're going to lose a lot on your way up. And it's going to hurt - sometimes quite literally. Even when you don't lose in your pro career, these are the ears of an undefeated champion: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13f49281504e1359e87fecade92dbcec https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13f49281504e1359e87fec...
  - dav_Oz 4y ago
    Since he wrestled his whole life and will probably continue in some way or another to keep himself fit, he doesn't care. However you can easily prevent your ears from "cauliflowering" after severe ear trauma if you drain the accumulated blood before it dries completely out after 2-3 days. At some point if you train a lot some soft/protruding parts of your ears will harden a bit and some edges aren't as smooth as before but it isn't really noticeable to other people.
- rendall 4y ago
  But I think those scars are cool-looking
  - groby_b 4y ago
    More power to you. If this is what your heart desires, get a few - just don't go claiming they say something about your qualities as a person :)
IncRnd 4y ago
We've had code review dueling for the past few years, and it has really helped with the quality of code and pull requests. In the past, programmers submitted all sorts of junk code into our version control, what I would today call chatgpt nonsense. At the time it was likely Stack Overflow nonsense. In any case, Code Review Dueling has changed the landscape of our coding. For the past two years, not a single negative comment has appeared on code pull requests. All it took was the deaths of a few unqualified people who lied on their resumes. This "old is new" methodology has caused programmers and architects to work with other people before ever writing code or designing systems. In our monthly metrics report from the CI (but not CD) pipeline, I also noticed that we no longer import any dependencies from 3rd parties. In fact, IT has shutdown all access to pip, apt-get, and so forth. Everything is custom and has been beautifully designed and coded in-house. It's absolutely amazing. Even our customers regularly request they be allowed to purchase extra copies of our software, just to give to their children and grandchildren, when they come of age. But before purchasing extra copies, they always call first, since our license lawyers are very prolific, proactive, and protective of our rights.
- siva7 4y ago
  This has to be satire. Please tell me it is
  - gpderetta 4y ago
    It is likely true. Unless you think that an employer approving of employees killing each other is too far fetched ('it only took a few deaths...').
  - jackothy 4y ago
    100% real and true source: I was one of the people slain in the duels
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  What is "code review dueling", can you explain this a bit more?
mschuster91 4y ago
Actually, the situation isn't as clear as one might think. Duels are allowed under two conditions: 1) no "honor duels" (see [1], bottom of page 7) and 2) all participants must be protected (see [1], first paragraph of section 1, page 2). The latter usually means at least protective suits and in most cases dull swords as well. There has been a duel two weeks ago in Erlangen that violated both these rules [2] - they fought for the honor of their corporation, with sharp swords and without protection. The clusterfuck ended with one minor and one major injury, now police are investigating and politicians are talking about banning duels entirely. [1] http://www.corpsarchive.de/images/digiarchiv/bghstudnitz.pdf http://www.corpsarchive.de/images/digiarchiv/bghstudnitz.pdf [2] https://taz.de/Erlanger-Studentenverbindungen/!5917975/ https://taz.de/Erlanger-Studentenverbindungen/!5917975/
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rkta 4y ago
  From [2]: > Die Autonome Antifa Freiburg (AAF) hat interne Chats der Verbindungen veröffentlicht, aus denen weitere Details hervorgehen. Roughly: > The Autonomous Antifa Freiburg has released internal chats from that association which give more detail. How does a local antifa group get access to internal chats of a Burschenschaft?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Either they got a double agent into a Burschenschaft or the screenshots probably made the rounds in the form of screenshots where someone forwarded the screenshots to the antifa group. Or it got leaked on purpose by someone in the Burschenschaft pissed off about the duelers.
hnbad 4y ago
It's also worth noting that unlike college fraternities in the US, which seem to be pretty ubiquituous, Burschenschaften in Germany are fairly niche and all veer to the right wing of the political spectrum: mostly Christian conservatism although there are widespread völkisch nationalist undertones. I'm not saying these are "nazi" groups but I've yet to encounter a Burschi who isn't at least to the right of the general public. As the StackExchange answer suggests, membership is also often tied to military service (which also is much less common than in the US) and the culture is strongly tied to aristocratic (or at least "old money") lineages and "mentorship" (some would say nepotism). Basically the correct mental image is probably private societies in expensive English "public schools" (i.e. what most of the rest of the world would consider private schools: the kind you have to pay for), not US style "Greek houses". It's worth noting that despite the similarities between völkisch nationalism and ethnonationalism, most Burschenschaften are explicitly opposed to the far right, at least in public statements. If you want to tie them to an anti-democratic movement it's probably more likely to be neo-feudalism (e.g. the Reichsbürger monarchists) than actual neo-nazis. There have been some instances of nazi chat groups within Burschenschaften being found out and members have been running for the far-right nationalist Alternative für Deutschland party however. EDIT: Also, worth noting, schlagende Verbindungen, i.e. the ones engaging in ritualistic duels with sharp blades, are on the fringe of these groups and also veer to the right of those (I think most "moderate" Christian conservative ones are strongly opposed to the practice). So the entire dueling thing nowadays is a fringe of a fringe of a fringe and most Germans would feel very concerned if you tell them you engage in it.

groby_b 4y ago

It is actually not permissible to duel. You can engage in "friendly combat", but duelling to restore your honor is both illegal and dishonorable. (The German fraternities, which are responsible for these fights, gave their word of honor that there would be no more duels to satisfy insults to honor) It is also an extremely stupid idea that scars are somehow an "authentic mark". As somebody who fought three of those "mensuren": Scars are a sign that you thought you are better than you actually are. It's the embodiment of "Dunning Kruger walks here".

somenameforme 4y ago
This seems analogous to claiming that an MMA fighter with cauliflower ear just thought they were better than they were. One of the great thing about sports is that they teach humility. You're going to lose a lot on your way up. And it's going to hurt - sometimes quite literally. Even when you don't lose in your pro career, these are the ears of an undefeated champion: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13f49281504e1359e87fecade92dbcec https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-13f49281504e1359e87fec...
- dav_Oz 4y ago
  Since he wrestled his whole life and will probably continue in some way or another to keep himself fit, he doesn't care. However you can easily prevent your ears from "cauliflowering" after severe ear trauma if you drain the accumulated blood before it dries completely out after 2-3 days. At some point if you train a lot some soft/protruding parts of your ears will harden a bit and some edges aren't as smooth as before but it isn't really noticeable to other people.
rendall 4y ago
But I think those scars are cool-looking
- groby_b 4y ago
  More power to you. If this is what your heart desires, get a few - just don't go claiming they say something about your qualities as a person :)

IncRnd 4y ago

We've had code review dueling for the past few years, and it has really helped with the quality of code and pull requests. In the past, programmers submitted all sorts of junk code into our version control, what I would today call chatgpt nonsense. At the time it was likely Stack Overflow nonsense. In any case, Code Review Dueling has changed the landscape of our coding. For the past two years, not a single negative comment has appeared on code pull requests. All it took was the deaths of a few unqualified people who lied on their resumes. This "old is new" methodology has caused programmers and architects to work with other people before ever writing code or designing systems. In our monthly metrics report from the CI (but not CD) pipeline, I also noticed that we no longer import any dependencies from 3rd parties. In fact, IT has shutdown all access to pip, apt-get, and so forth. Everything is custom and has been beautifully designed and coded in-house. It's absolutely amazing. Even our customers regularly request they be allowed to purchase extra copies of our software, just to give to their children and grandchildren, when they come of age. But before purchasing extra copies, they always call first, since our license lawyers are very prolific, proactive, and protective of our rights.

siva7 4y ago
This has to be satire. Please tell me it is
- gpderetta 4y ago
  It is likely true. Unless you think that an employer approving of employees killing each other is too far fetched ('it only took a few deaths...').
- jackothy 4y ago
  100% real and true source: I was one of the people slain in the duels
throwawaylinux 4y ago
What is "code review dueling", can you explain this a bit more?

mschuster91 4y ago

Actually, the situation isn't as clear as one might think. Duels are allowed under two conditions: 1) no "honor duels" (see [1], bottom of page 7) and 2) all participants must be protected (see [1], first paragraph of section 1, page 2). The latter usually means at least protective suits and in most cases dull swords as well. There has been a duel two weeks ago in Erlangen that violated both these rules [2] - they fought for the honor of their corporation, with sharp swords and without protection. The clusterfuck ended with one minor and one major injury, now police are investigating and politicians are talking about banning duels entirely. [1] http://www.corpsarchive.de/images/digiarchiv/bghstudnitz.pdf http://www.corpsarchive.de/images/digiarchiv/bghstudnitz.pdf [2] https://taz.de/Erlanger-Studentenverbindungen/!5917975/ https://taz.de/Erlanger-Studentenverbindungen/!5917975/

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rkta 4y ago
From [2]: > Die Autonome Antifa Freiburg (AAF) hat interne Chats der Verbindungen veröffentlicht, aus denen weitere Details hervorgehen. Roughly: > The Autonomous Antifa Freiburg has released internal chats from that association which give more detail. How does a local antifa group get access to internal chats of a Burschenschaft?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Either they got a double agent into a Burschenschaft or the screenshots probably made the rounds in the form of screenshots where someone forwarded the screenshots to the antifa group. Or it got leaked on purpose by someone in the Burschenschaft pissed off about the duelers.

hnbad 4y ago

It's also worth noting that unlike college fraternities in the US, which seem to be pretty ubiquituous, Burschenschaften in Germany are fairly niche and all veer to the right wing of the political spectrum: mostly Christian conservatism although there are widespread völkisch nationalist undertones. I'm not saying these are "nazi" groups but I've yet to encounter a Burschi who isn't at least to the right of the general public. As the StackExchange answer suggests, membership is also often tied to military service (which also is much less common than in the US) and the culture is strongly tied to aristocratic (or at least "old money") lineages and "mentorship" (some would say nepotism). Basically the correct mental image is probably private societies in expensive English "public schools" (i.e. what most of the rest of the world would consider private schools: the kind you have to pay for), not US style "Greek houses". It's worth noting that despite the similarities between völkisch nationalism and ethnonationalism, most Burschenschaften are explicitly opposed to the far right, at least in public statements. If you want to tie them to an anti-democratic movement it's probably more likely to be neo-feudalism (e.g. the Reichsbürger monarchists) than actual neo-nazis. There have been some instances of nazi chat groups within Burschenschaften being found out and members have been running for the far-right nationalist Alternative für Deutschland party however. EDIT: Also, worth noting, schlagende Verbindungen, i.e. the ones engaging in ritualistic duels with sharp blades, are on the fringe of these groups and also veer to the right of those (I think most "moderate" Christian conservative ones are strongly opposed to the practice). So the entire dueling thing nowadays is a fringe of a fringe of a fringe and most Germans would feel very concerned if you tell them you engage in it.