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How is Apple stock a scam? You own a small part of a business which makes lots of money, they give some of it back to investors every year. What about Coke? Goo

How is Apple stock a scam? You own a small part of a business which makes lots of money, they give some of it back to investors every year. What about Coke? Google?

cammikebrown 4y ago
Just read up about stock buybacks for a bit and tell me the whole thing isn’t a rigged scam.
- recycledmatt 4y ago
  This is driven by tax policy more than anything. It’s cheaper to make the pool of available stock smaller vs distribute as a dividend. The CEO’s fiduciary duty is to shareholder value. The rest is a game.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  Handing money back to stockholders isn't a scam. Every stock buyback either a) gives me money if I sell and I get to keep the same % of the company I owned before, or b) makes me own more of the same company. And the tax treatment is better than a dividend.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    > And the tax treatment is better than a dividend. How do you think that rule got passed?
    - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
      Which rule exactly? There are a number of rules interacting which make buybacks in the US better right now, it's not just a rule that says "buybacks will have better tax treatment than dividends". The dividend tax rate could be changed to zero tomorrow (or the tax treatment on dividends could become like other countries who don't double tax) and buybacks would be less favorable. Taxes are complicated, there will always be one choice which is better than another from a tax perspective.
jongjong 4y ago
At that scale, everything is a scam in almost every way. They arbitrage unfavorable laws, monopolize supply chains, monopolize consumer attention, monopolize financial interests, engage in regulatory capture, benefit from international monetary expansion, government contracts, engage in coercive sales tactics (how many times a company has forced me to use a Mac for work in spite of it being less efficient for me), etc...
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  If it is just a big scam, why don't more companies do it? Apple is generating about $100 bill a year in net income. No one else is. Tim Cook is just the worlds greatest scam artist by orders of magnitude?
  - jongjong 4y ago
    You don't have to be a scammer to benefit from scams. E.g. if your dad is a mafia boss and buys you a house for free, you're not a scammer yourself, yet you certainly benefited from scams. Or in some cases, you might think that you're merely toeing the line between good and bad, but behind the scenes, your employees are secretly stepping over the line constantly without your knowledge. The reason why not every company is like this is because not every company has enough money and political power to be able to call up any politician whenever they want, lobby for beneficial regulations, hire the best (most well connected) lawyers in the world, etc... All these factors create an unfair playing field.

How is Apple stock a scam? You own a small part of a business which makes lots of money, they give some of it back to investors every year. What about Coke? Google?

cammikebrown 4y ago

Just read up about stock buybacks for a bit and tell me the whole thing isn’t a rigged scam.

recycledmatt 4y ago
This is driven by tax policy more than anything. It’s cheaper to make the pool of available stock smaller vs distribute as a dividend. The CEO’s fiduciary duty is to shareholder value. The rest is a game.
danielmarkbruce 4y ago
Handing money back to stockholders isn't a scam. Every stock buyback either a) gives me money if I sell and I get to keep the same % of the company I owned before, or b) makes me own more of the same company. And the tax treatment is better than a dividend.
- latchkey 4y ago
  > And the tax treatment is better than a dividend. How do you think that rule got passed?
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    Which rule exactly? There are a number of rules interacting which make buybacks in the US better right now, it's not just a rule that says "buybacks will have better tax treatment than dividends". The dividend tax rate could be changed to zero tomorrow (or the tax treatment on dividends could become like other countries who don't double tax) and buybacks would be less favorable. Taxes are complicated, there will always be one choice which is better than another from a tax perspective.

jongjong 4y ago

At that scale, everything is a scam in almost every way. They arbitrage unfavorable laws, monopolize supply chains, monopolize consumer attention, monopolize financial interests, engage in regulatory capture, benefit from international monetary expansion, government contracts, engage in coercive sales tactics (how many times a company has forced me to use a Mac for work in spite of it being less efficient for me), etc...

danielmarkbruce 4y ago
If it is just a big scam, why don't more companies do it? Apple is generating about $100 bill a year in net income. No one else is. Tim Cook is just the worlds greatest scam artist by orders of magnitude?
- jongjong 4y ago
  You don't have to be a scammer to benefit from scams. E.g. if your dad is a mafia boss and buys you a house for free, you're not a scammer yourself, yet you certainly benefited from scams. Or in some cases, you might think that you're merely toeing the line between good and bad, but behind the scenes, your employees are secretly stepping over the line constantly without your knowledge. The reason why not every company is like this is because not every company has enough money and political power to be able to call up any politician whenever they want, lobby for beneficial regulations, hire the best (most well connected) lawyers in the world, etc... All these factors create an unfair playing field.