5 ms·

"Van Oosterhout, a professor of evolutionary genetics ... warns that our highly bred livestock cannot keep pace with the evolution of parasites, such as viruses

by myshpa 4y ago

"Van Oosterhout, a professor of evolutionary genetics ... warns that our highly bred livestock cannot keep pace with the evolution of parasites, such as viruses, due to the animals’ lack of genetic diversity. As a result, livestock act as “mixing vessels” for the emergence of new infectious diseases that can then make the leap from animals to humans. In combination with habitat destruction, the illegal wildlife trade, and mass migration of both animals and people, Prof. Van Oosterhout says this has created a “perfect storm” for the development of pandemics, such as COVID-19. He concludes that emerging infectious diseases are “possibly the greatest existential threat to humanity.”" https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/excessive-animal-farming-created-perfect-storm-for-pandemics-scientist-says https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/excessive-animal-f... https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/coronavirus-meat-animal-farming-pandemic-disease-wet-markets-a9505626.html https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/coronaviru... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2020/sep/15/covid-farm-animals-and-pandemics-diseases-that-changed-the-world https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2020/... https://sentientmedia.org/animal-agriculture/ https://sentientmedia.org/animal-agriculture/ We should stop eating meat. For most of the world it's not a necessity, but a personal choice. We "grow & harvest" 80 billion land animals every year.

armatav 4y ago
It’s a necessity for all humans to eat meat. Whether you eat animal or lab meat is the choice.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Wut. A lot of India would like to have a word with you.
  - myko 4y ago
    I quickly googled but didn't see a good answer on this, how do Indian families do baby formula? I thought formula required animal product to be effective.
    - p0pcult 4y ago
      "Meat" and "animal product" are not the same.
  - armatav 4y ago
    Yes, a country well known for the nutritional constitution of its impoverished.
    - p0pcult 4y ago
      Right, i forgot. Meat is the cheap nutritional option. /s
- munk-a 4y ago
  This is just factually incorrect - I can't even think of anything I can really cite to highlight that we're able to derive all the nutrients we need from plants and that it gets even easier if nutritional supplements are brought into the picture. I certainly enjoy meat and cook with it frequently - but it's a luxury and one that is hardly mechanically necessary to my survival (and, tbh, is generally a larger source of health issues than veganism).
  - armatav 4y ago
    Wrong - a plant diet without supplementation is effectively a health crisis. It’s no luxury. We did not evolve our brains based on a “luxury”. Cooked meat is a necessity. You are worse for not having it in every and any case, and a plant based diet without supplementation is equivalent to running at a lower efficiency.
    - myshpa 4y ago
      Please don't spread FUD and lies, please. > Wrong - a plant diet without supplementation is effectively a health crisis Supplementation is not a problem - we're supplementing the animals with B12 etc. anyway, so why not skip the middleman. > Cooked meat is a necessity It was, but it isn't anymore. Not in most of the world. > You are worse for not having it Not true - plant based diets are healthier. It's a fact. > plant based diet without supplementation is equivalent to running at a lower efficiency Nobody forces you to skip supplementation ... everywhere you look it's mentioned as a necessity. And many vegan products are fortified already. Everything you get from animal products you can get from plants. Those animals did.
      - armatav 4y ago
        Plant based diets are purely worse for you - you can tell because you need to slam 11 different nutrient pills to keep going without your body failing. You terminate earlier on these fad-diets than on your natural omnivorous diet - and what's more, if you did pure meat and no vegetables, you're actually 2x better off than on a purely plant diet.
- ta1243 4y ago
  There's about 500 million vegetarians in the world
  - armatav 4y ago
    What a shame
- myshpa 4y ago
  American Dietetic Association "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." NHS UK "A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." British Dietetic Association "A plant-based diet is based on foods derived from plants, […] with few or no animal products. […] Well-planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life-stage" World Health Organisation "For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. For children, however, and especially those aged 6-24 months, each meal should contain wherever possible two complementary sources of plant protein" https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/ https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/
  - armatav 4y ago
    All part of the same organizations - all incorrect in their assumption. Cooked meat is necessary for healthy living.
p0pcult 4y ago
I think you would actually achieve your goal of advancing vegetarianism more effectively, if you left off the whole last paragraph. You had me very convinced in the first half, because i recognise the risks discussed by Van Oosterhout, but the second you pivoted, you lost me. And probably others. And yeah, maybe that contrarian streak makes me an asshole, but I am sure that I am not the only contrarian on HN.
- me-vs-cat 4y ago
  [flagged]
- myshpa 4y ago
  "A key way of preventing pandemics in the future is to reduce our meat consumption. That’s the view of Cock Van Oosterhout ... argues that reducing livestock is ‘imperative’ for public and planetary health, and suggests more money and research time be spent on developing meat alternatives." https://www.transitionearth.co/2021/05/11/meat-reduction-key-to-reducing-risks-of-future-pandemics-argues-leading-professor-of-evolutionary-genetics/ https://www.transitionearth.co/2021/05/11/meat-reduction-key... You may not want to hear and see things, but that doesn't make the problems go away. And reducing livestock and stopping eating meat is a logical position to take. Also, https://i.redd.it/nk7dau6nmmja1.jpg https://i.redd.it/nk7dau6nmmja1.jpg
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    You keep (mostly) repeating yourself, so I think you missed my point. I agree with Mr. Cock's points about industrial-scale, monoculture livestock being a fertile breeding ground for novel pathogens. Makes a lot of sense to me. Let's go, let's recognize it as an existential risk, let's do something about that. >stopping eating meat is a logical position to take Oh, I'm out. No thanks. There is certainly an accelerationism at work in your logic, as the professor merely suggests reducing meat consumption. Which you take to the mat, and think we should stop eating meat. Do you see the difference? Van Oosterhout comes across as an academic. You come across as a scold, and no one wants to listen to a scold. And this is from someone who eats meatless a couple days a week, and when I do eat meat, it tends to be a sensible portion size. I'm all in on the Beyond/Impossible stuff too. In other words, I'm pretty open minded generally to the idea of reducing meat consumption.
steve1977 4y ago
> We should stop eating meat. For most of the world it's not a necessity, but a personal choice. The same applies to traveling. Let's start with that, as it will prevent pandemics even more probably.
- myshpa 4y ago
  https://flightfree.co.uk/post/is-it-better-to-be-vegan-or-give-up-flying/ https://flightfree.co.uk/post/is-it-better-to-be-vegan-or-gi... This source seems to agree with you. However it calculates CO2 emmisions from animal agriculture at 15%, a figure which is (rightly) disputed and may be as high as 80%, if we'd allow for grazing lands to be reforested/rewilded. There are many studies/opinions on the subject, and we imho don't have a complete picture yet. The numbers differ greatly, and there are powerful players distorting the debate (big ag, oil sector). But what we do know is that that we have to do many things to reduce our footprint. Doing just A and ignoring B is not an optimal strategy. We should be prepared to do as much as possible to reduce our impact. Or be ready to face the consequences.
  - steve1977 4y ago
    I was actually talking about the risk of spreading viruses globally, not CO2 (although that is another important point as well of course).
    - myshpa 4y ago
      Of course, I've misread, mea culpa. But ... as zombie movies show attempts to stop pandemics are usually futile. Maybe it's better to prevent them.
      - steve1977 4y ago
        Not traveling prevents pandemics. It doesn't prevent new diseases from emerging, but it prevents them from becoming pandemic.
        4y ago

by myshpa 4y ago

armatav 4y ago

It’s a necessity for all humans to eat meat. Whether you eat animal or lab meat is the choice.

p0pcult 4y ago
Wut. A lot of India would like to have a word with you.
- myko 4y ago
  I quickly googled but didn't see a good answer on this, how do Indian families do baby formula? I thought formula required animal product to be effective.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    "Meat" and "animal product" are not the same.
- armatav 4y ago
  Yes, a country well known for the nutritional constitution of its impoverished.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    Right, i forgot. Meat is the cheap nutritional option. /s
munk-a 4y ago
This is just factually incorrect - I can't even think of anything I can really cite to highlight that we're able to derive all the nutrients we need from plants and that it gets even easier if nutritional supplements are brought into the picture. I certainly enjoy meat and cook with it frequently - but it's a luxury and one that is hardly mechanically necessary to my survival (and, tbh, is generally a larger source of health issues than veganism).
- armatav 4y ago
  Wrong - a plant diet without supplementation is effectively a health crisis. It’s no luxury. We did not evolve our brains based on a “luxury”. Cooked meat is a necessity. You are worse for not having it in every and any case, and a plant based diet without supplementation is equivalent to running at a lower efficiency.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    Please don't spread FUD and lies, please. > Wrong - a plant diet without supplementation is effectively a health crisis Supplementation is not a problem - we're supplementing the animals with B12 etc. anyway, so why not skip the middleman. > Cooked meat is a necessity It was, but it isn't anymore. Not in most of the world. > You are worse for not having it Not true - plant based diets are healthier. It's a fact. > plant based diet without supplementation is equivalent to running at a lower efficiency Nobody forces you to skip supplementation ... everywhere you look it's mentioned as a necessity. And many vegan products are fortified already. Everything you get from animal products you can get from plants. Those animals did.
    - armatav 4y ago
      Plant based diets are purely worse for you - you can tell because you need to slam 11 different nutrient pills to keep going without your body failing. You terminate earlier on these fad-diets than on your natural omnivorous diet - and what's more, if you did pure meat and no vegetables, you're actually 2x better off than on a purely plant diet.
ta1243 4y ago
There's about 500 million vegetarians in the world
- armatav 4y ago
  What a shame
myshpa 4y ago
American Dietetic Association "It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." NHS UK "A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age." British Dietetic Association "A plant-based diet is based on foods derived from plants, […] with few or no animal products. […] Well-planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life-stage" World Health Organisation "For adults, protein from two or more plant groups daily is like to be adequate. For children, however, and especially those aged 6-24 months, each meal should contain wherever possible two complementary sources of plant protein" https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/ https://talkveganto.me/en/facts/suitable-for-all/
- armatav 4y ago
  All part of the same organizations - all incorrect in their assumption. Cooked meat is necessary for healthy living.

p0pcult 4y ago

I think you would actually achieve your goal of advancing vegetarianism more effectively, if you left off the whole last paragraph. You had me very convinced in the first half, because i recognise the risks discussed by Van Oosterhout, but the second you pivoted, you lost me. And probably others. And yeah, maybe that contrarian streak makes me an asshole, but I am sure that I am not the only contrarian on HN.

me-vs-cat 4y ago
[flagged]
myshpa 4y ago
"A key way of preventing pandemics in the future is to reduce our meat consumption. That’s the view of Cock Van Oosterhout ... argues that reducing livestock is ‘imperative’ for public and planetary health, and suggests more money and research time be spent on developing meat alternatives." https://www.transitionearth.co/2021/05/11/meat-reduction-key-to-reducing-risks-of-future-pandemics-argues-leading-professor-of-evolutionary-genetics/ https://www.transitionearth.co/2021/05/11/meat-reduction-key... You may not want to hear and see things, but that doesn't make the problems go away. And reducing livestock and stopping eating meat is a logical position to take. Also, https://i.redd.it/nk7dau6nmmja1.jpg https://i.redd.it/nk7dau6nmmja1.jpg
- p0pcult 4y ago
  You keep (mostly) repeating yourself, so I think you missed my point. I agree with Mr. Cock's points about industrial-scale, monoculture livestock being a fertile breeding ground for novel pathogens. Makes a lot of sense to me. Let's go, let's recognize it as an existential risk, let's do something about that. >stopping eating meat is a logical position to take Oh, I'm out. No thanks. There is certainly an accelerationism at work in your logic, as the professor merely suggests reducing meat consumption. Which you take to the mat, and think we should stop eating meat. Do you see the difference? Van Oosterhout comes across as an academic. You come across as a scold, and no one wants to listen to a scold. And this is from someone who eats meatless a couple days a week, and when I do eat meat, it tends to be a sensible portion size. I'm all in on the Beyond/Impossible stuff too. In other words, I'm pretty open minded generally to the idea of reducing meat consumption.

steve1977 4y ago

> We should stop eating meat. For most of the world it's not a necessity, but a personal choice. The same applies to traveling. Let's start with that, as it will prevent pandemics even more probably.

myshpa 4y ago
https://flightfree.co.uk/post/is-it-better-to-be-vegan-or-give-up-flying/ https://flightfree.co.uk/post/is-it-better-to-be-vegan-or-gi... This source seems to agree with you. However it calculates CO2 emmisions from animal agriculture at 15%, a figure which is (rightly) disputed and may be as high as 80%, if we'd allow for grazing lands to be reforested/rewilded. There are many studies/opinions on the subject, and we imho don't have a complete picture yet. The numbers differ greatly, and there are powerful players distorting the debate (big ag, oil sector). But what we do know is that that we have to do many things to reduce our footprint. Doing just A and ignoring B is not an optimal strategy. We should be prepared to do as much as possible to reduce our impact. Or be ready to face the consequences.
- steve1977 4y ago
  I was actually talking about the risk of spreading viruses globally, not CO2 (although that is another important point as well of course).
  - myshpa 4y ago
    Of course, I've misread, mea culpa. But ... as zombie movies show attempts to stop pandemics are usually futile. Maybe it's better to prevent them.
    - steve1977 4y ago
      Not traveling prevents pandemics. It doesn't prevent new diseases from emerging, but it prevents them from becoming pandemic.
      - 4y ago