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Yeah, the subculture of people who get incandescently angry about CPS aren't the kinds of people I'd want anywhere near children.

by msla 4y ago

jasonfarnon 4y ago
for those of us who ticked off at CPS, that's kind of the point. who you want "anywhere near children" should have nothing to do with my relationship with my kids.
- msla 4y ago
  > who you want "anywhere near children" should have nothing to do with my relationship with my kids. The laws against child abuse argue against this kind of absolutism. Do you have something against those, too?
  - jasonfarnon 4y ago
    I thought that was obvious.
  - gowld 4y ago
    Yes, they want to beat their kid in peace: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34918902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34918902
- oscillonoscope 4y ago
  Why? It seems like those things are directly related. If I see somebody treating their child poorly then I wouldn't want them caring for my children.
FireBeyond 4y ago
Guess I’d better quit as a paramedic since I’m apparently not fit to be around kids, let alone treat them in medical emergencies.
mtrower 4y ago
All well and good until you're on the reverse end of the stick. It cuts both ways. Sometimes CPS is direly necessary. Sometimes it's just harassment.
takenaway 4y ago
You imply that people who get "incandescent" about CPS abuse children, or believe that government should not have the right to stop parents who abuse children. I do neither of those things, yet I remain "incandescent" about CPS. So that you can understand why, I'll share a personal anecdote. When I was in elementary school, CPS received an anonymous allegation of child abuse regarding my parent. That was false—there was no abuse. CPS investigated by sending a social worker to my school, who interviewed my sibling and me individually. My teacher insisted on being present so we would not be alone with the interviewer, something I've appreciated ever since I was old enough to understand the implication. In the end, the conclusion was: no abuse. Later, CPS received another false, anonymous allegation. Our family went to a CPS facility, and my sibling and I were interviewed individually. A (non-parental) relative was allowed to be present. Conclusion: no abuse. Later, CPS received yet another false, anonymous allegation. A cop showed up at our door, and threatened my parent with arrest if my sibling and I were not willingly given up to the cop. The cop drove us to another city in another county over 50 miles away, where we were taken to a safe house and interviewed individually by CPS, with nobody in the building except two social workers, us two children, and the police officer who had taken us from our home indefinitely. Conclusion: no abuse. At the end of the day, our parent picked us up. I have had a deep mistrust of and visceral aversion to police and CPS ever since. Being taken from a safe, stable, loving home and not knowing if you will ever come back is deeply traumatic. It doesn't matter that we weren't taken for long—the damage was already done. My sibling and I knew that it could have easily gone the other way, and that it could easily happen again. Thanks to that incident, I fully believe the parent in this story: https://reason.com/2019/04/25/adam-lowther-child-services-police-abuse/ https://reason.com/2019/04/25/adam-lowther-child-services-po... It is very similar to what I experienced, except in magnitude. But... after the third incident, we sued CPS, and received a favorable outcome. If we had not known or had the resources to do so, perhaps the situation would have continued to escalate. Cases where children are left with abuse parents are horrifying and sad. But I know the solution is not to give CPS free rein, low oversight, and the power to ignore due process. Doing so irreparably harms a different set of children.
- hellojesus 4y ago
  I applaud your parents for staying level-headed. There is a 100% chance I would have gotten into a firefight with the government in the same scenario. And of course that would have been objectionally successful for the government as the children would have been removed from the home.

Yeah, the subculture of people who get incandescently angry about CPS aren't the kinds of people I'd want anywhere near children.

by msla 4y ago

Yeah, the subculture of people who get incandescently angry about CPS aren't the kinds of people I'd want anywhere near children.

jasonfarnon 4y ago

for those of us who ticked off at CPS, that's kind of the point. who you want "anywhere near children" should have nothing to do with my relationship with my kids.

msla 4y ago
> who you want "anywhere near children" should have nothing to do with my relationship with my kids. The laws against child abuse argue against this kind of absolutism. Do you have something against those, too?
- jasonfarnon 4y ago
  I thought that was obvious.
- gowld 4y ago
  Yes, they want to beat their kid in peace: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34918902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34918902
oscillonoscope 4y ago
Why? It seems like those things are directly related. If I see somebody treating their child poorly then I wouldn't want them caring for my children.

FireBeyond 4y ago

Guess I’d better quit as a paramedic since I’m apparently not fit to be around kids, let alone treat them in medical emergencies.

mtrower 4y ago

All well and good until you're on the reverse end of the stick. It cuts both ways. Sometimes CPS is direly necessary. Sometimes it's just harassment.

takenaway 4y ago

You imply that people who get "incandescent" about CPS abuse children, or believe that government should not have the right to stop parents who abuse children. I do neither of those things, yet I remain "incandescent" about CPS. So that you can understand why, I'll share a personal anecdote. When I was in elementary school, CPS received an anonymous allegation of child abuse regarding my parent. That was false—there was no abuse. CPS investigated by sending a social worker to my school, who interviewed my sibling and me individually. My teacher insisted on being present so we would not be alone with the interviewer, something I've appreciated ever since I was old enough to understand the implication. In the end, the conclusion was: no abuse. Later, CPS received another false, anonymous allegation. Our family went to a CPS facility, and my sibling and I were interviewed individually. A (non-parental) relative was allowed to be present. Conclusion: no abuse. Later, CPS received yet another false, anonymous allegation. A cop showed up at our door, and threatened my parent with arrest if my sibling and I were not willingly given up to the cop. The cop drove us to another city in another county over 50 miles away, where we were taken to a safe house and interviewed individually by CPS, with nobody in the building except two social workers, us two children, and the police officer who had taken us from our home indefinitely. Conclusion: no abuse. At the end of the day, our parent picked us up. I have had a deep mistrust of and visceral aversion to police and CPS ever since. Being taken from a safe, stable, loving home and not knowing if you will ever come back is deeply traumatic. It doesn't matter that we weren't taken for long—the damage was already done. My sibling and I knew that it could have easily gone the other way, and that it could easily happen again. Thanks to that incident, I fully believe the parent in this story: https://reason.com/2019/04/25/adam-lowther-child-services-police-abuse/ https://reason.com/2019/04/25/adam-lowther-child-services-po... It is very similar to what I experienced, except in magnitude. But... after the third incident, we sued CPS, and received a favorable outcome. If we had not known or had the resources to do so, perhaps the situation would have continued to escalate. Cases where children are left with abuse parents are horrifying and sad. But I know the solution is not to give CPS free rein, low oversight, and the power to ignore due process. Doing so irreparably harms a different set of children.

hellojesus 4y ago
I applaud your parents for staying level-headed. There is a 100% chance I would have gotten into a firefight with the government in the same scenario. And of course that would have been objectionally successful for the government as the children would have been removed from the home.