4 ms·

Yeah, android trades browser ads for system wide tracking. I’m not really sure that’s a good deal.

by hailwren 4y ago

jszymborski 4y ago
GrapheneOS is a great option for those with a Pixel device :)
kornhole 4y ago
That is only if you have Google Play Services installed.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So you mean like 99%+ of all Android devices sold outside of China?
  - bandyaboot 4y ago
    I think this was meant to point out that trading ads for system wide tracking isn’t necessarily a deal you are forced to make if you are a person who is motivated not to make that deal. For most people avoiding tracking isn’t even a thought. Their first order of business is inviting Facebook, Twitter, and Tik Tok to the party.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  That's ... near a necessity for most apps. Though I seem to recall GPS shim that's available and which I really should swap in on my BOOX tablet.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    I have been running Graphene for years and find that few proprietary apps really need GAPS. I get a warning that it is required when they try to serve an ad, but I just dismiss it and enjoy the ad free experience. Graphene has great shims and even a sandboxed Google Play Services for those who want a lot of notifications. I don't use it myself, but my partner does.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Most F-Driod apps don't require Google Play Services. If you can live within the functionality provided by those apps then you're OK. That said, I know many can't.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      AFAIU it's all F-Droid apps that are GPS-free. I rely on a small handful of others installed from the Aurora, Google Play is a requirement for some of those. I may be hallucinating that shim, though I'm pretty sure it actually exists...
      - hilbert42 4y ago
        "...all F-Droid apps that are GPS-free.". Clearly you're right (sometimes I'm overcautious). :-)
      - mackrevinack 4y ago
        what do you mean by gps free? i have lots of apps installed from fdroid that use gps
        tpxl 4y ago
        Google Play Services, not Global Positioning System.
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        Yes, this.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        hilbert42 4y ago
        If you do mean Google Play Services, which apps?
      - deleted 4y ago
public_defender 4y ago
You seem to be implying that Apple does not collect a large amount of user data at the OS level, but of course they do collect those data.
hilbert42 4y ago
Right, Android trades ads for system wide tracking and that's rotten for the user. Moreover, Android's tacking mechanism is brilliantly effective—one has to admire Google's ingenuity for its receiver/signalling system. It's so integral to Android that one can view the O/S as built around it rather than it as an addition/add-on to the O/S. Essentially, Android is an O/S built around an ingenious spying system. It's just not possible to use an Android phone as Google intended (and as the vast majority of users actually do) without that tracking mechanism taking center stage. My solution is to disable or uninstall Google Play Services/apps and I never create a Google account. Also, wherever possible, I use a rooted phone. The penalty for such action is that many of the attractive so-called free services are unavailable to me. However, the benefits of closing down or uninstalling all unnecessary services and apps and disabling JavaScript are that my battery now lasts for days, ads are a thing of the past and the phone and internet access are much faster. I accept however the vast majority of users either aren't capable of making such a tradeoff or aren't prepared to do so and Google knows that—that's why it's a winner. For Google, users like me are just insignificant noise.
- 3np 4y ago
  > It's just not possible to use an Android phone as Google intended (and as the vast majority of users actually do) without that tracking mechanism taking center stage These things are not as tightly woven into the OS as you make it seem. It is very much possible. GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, roll your own AOSP-based image. A completely degoogled Pixel series is even practical and realistic for casuals. As you say you miss out or have to fiddle a big for many apps which break without SafetyNet and other malware.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    "These things are not as tightly woven into the OS as you make it seem." I know that but try and tell it to the average user. Even many of my techie colleagues aren't game to make changes to their phones for fear of losing some beloved feature. Frankly, I'm amazed at how tolerant people are to this level of surveillance. That said, much can and does go wrong, resurrecting bricked phones seems to be a pastime of mine. As you know, whether one can decouple Google's spyware subsystem easily or not depends on the phone. If you can't gain access to the OS then it's not possible to roll one's own ASOP-based image or use some other one. These days, many manufacturers are making it harder and harder to bypass security features, unlock the boot loader and install custom ROMs. Nevertheless I won't buy a phone without first checking whether I can install a custom ROM and it's definitely harder now than it was say five years ago.
realusername 4y ago
That's also the case on iOS, the tracking has been a security exploit since it has a lot of permissions. At least on Android there's a way to use a custom rom even if it's difficult.
alickz 4y ago
As does iOS, but the user has no control over the device so can't do anything about it

Yeah, android trades browser ads for system wide tracking. I’m not really sure that’s a good deal.

jszymborski 4y ago

GrapheneOS is a great option for those with a Pixel device :)

kornhole 4y ago

That is only if you have Google Play Services installed.

scarface74 4y ago
So you mean like 99%+ of all Android devices sold outside of China?
- bandyaboot 4y ago
  I think this was meant to point out that trading ads for system wide tracking isn’t necessarily a deal you are forced to make if you are a person who is motivated not to make that deal. For most people avoiding tracking isn’t even a thought. Their first order of business is inviting Facebook, Twitter, and Tik Tok to the party.
dredmorbius 4y ago
That's ... near a necessity for most apps. Though I seem to recall GPS shim that's available and which I really should swap in on my BOOX tablet.
- kornhole 4y ago
  I have been running Graphene for years and find that few proprietary apps really need GAPS. I get a warning that it is required when they try to serve an ad, but I just dismiss it and enjoy the ad free experience. Graphene has great shims and even a sandboxed Google Play Services for those who want a lot of notifications. I don't use it myself, but my partner does.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Most F-Driod apps don't require Google Play Services. If you can live within the functionality provided by those apps then you're OK. That said, I know many can't.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    AFAIU it's all F-Droid apps that are GPS-free. I rely on a small handful of others installed from the Aurora, Google Play is a requirement for some of those. I may be hallucinating that shim, though I'm pretty sure it actually exists...
    - hilbert42 4y ago
      "...all F-Droid apps that are GPS-free.". Clearly you're right (sometimes I'm overcautious). :-)
    - mackrevinack 4y ago
      what do you mean by gps free? i have lots of apps installed from fdroid that use gps
      - tpxl 4y ago
        Google Play Services, not Global Positioning System.
        dredmorbius 4y ago
        Yes, this.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - hilbert42 4y ago
        If you do mean Google Play Services, which apps?
    - deleted 4y ago

public_defender 4y ago

You seem to be implying that Apple does not collect a large amount of user data at the OS level, but of course they do collect those data.

hilbert42 4y ago

Right, Android trades ads for system wide tracking and that's rotten for the user. Moreover, Android's tacking mechanism is brilliantly effective—one has to admire Google's ingenuity for its receiver/signalling system. It's so integral to Android that one can view the O/S as built around it rather than it as an addition/add-on to the O/S. Essentially, Android is an O/S built around an ingenious spying system. It's just not possible to use an Android phone as Google intended (and as the vast majority of users actually do) without that tracking mechanism taking center stage. My solution is to disable or uninstall Google Play Services/apps and I never create a Google account. Also, wherever possible, I use a rooted phone. The penalty for such action is that many of the attractive so-called free services are unavailable to me. However, the benefits of closing down or uninstalling all unnecessary services and apps and disabling JavaScript are that my battery now lasts for days, ads are a thing of the past and the phone and internet access are much faster. I accept however the vast majority of users either aren't capable of making such a tradeoff or aren't prepared to do so and Google knows that—that's why it's a winner. For Google, users like me are just insignificant noise.

3np 4y ago
> It's just not possible to use an Android phone as Google intended (and as the vast majority of users actually do) without that tracking mechanism taking center stage These things are not as tightly woven into the OS as you make it seem. It is very much possible. GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, roll your own AOSP-based image. A completely degoogled Pixel series is even practical and realistic for casuals. As you say you miss out or have to fiddle a big for many apps which break without SafetyNet and other malware.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  "These things are not as tightly woven into the OS as you make it seem." I know that but try and tell it to the average user. Even many of my techie colleagues aren't game to make changes to their phones for fear of losing some beloved feature. Frankly, I'm amazed at how tolerant people are to this level of surveillance. That said, much can and does go wrong, resurrecting bricked phones seems to be a pastime of mine. As you know, whether one can decouple Google's spyware subsystem easily or not depends on the phone. If you can't gain access to the OS then it's not possible to roll one's own ASOP-based image or use some other one. These days, many manufacturers are making it harder and harder to bypass security features, unlock the boot loader and install custom ROMs. Nevertheless I won't buy a phone without first checking whether I can install a custom ROM and it's definitely harder now than it was say five years ago.

realusername 4y ago

That's also the case on iOS, the tracking has been a security exploit since it has a lot of permissions. At least on Android there's a way to use a custom rom even if it's difficult.

alickz 4y ago

As does iOS, but the user has no control over the device so can't do anything about it